Steve ate her pups

[psycho_ash]

Martins cages are nice, but not really an option when you live outside of the USA - the cost of shipping is half the cost of the cage.

Oh, that's a good point. I guess Martin's is like the USA version of Ferplast, then? I can't seem to find any Ferplast retailers in the USA, only in Europe. It's a shame, because their XL looks amazing.

[Jaguar]

They do look pretty nice but they also cost a whopping 250-270 USD without shipping.  Drop in pans are a huge pain in the rear and it takes up quite a bit of space seeing as it's almost a cube. & For that price, I would rather get a Critter or Ferret Nation which is almost double the size with multiple levels, stand, wheels, etc.  

[Devon]

Well just got back from the vets.

Last night just before we went to bed it looked like she was starting to go into labour, left her alone for the night. This morning me and Kate had to be in for 6 am had a quick check seen some movement under fleece left in a rush didn't have time to really check her out. This afternoon we get home from work and she is by her self with some blood on the fleece. Weighs 40 grams less and no bubs. Take her to the emergency vet for x-rays but no babies, best guess she had stillborns and ate them which apparently is common for the mom to do to unhealthy pups.

[ema-leigh]

It is also common for a mother rat who has been moved from a colony to by herself to eat the babies as she doesnt feel secure raising them in a different enviroment. How soon before the birth did you move her?

Yes she may of eaten the unhealthy ones... but thats not normally a whole litter. If they were all stillborn you will most likely would of saw some green discharge as well as blood on the bedding which is what leads me to believe she ate them because she was moved. Why do people think such a social animal wants to go through labour and raising the babie alone?!?!

[Sorraia]

It is also common for a mother rat who has been moved from a colony to by herself to eat the babies as she doesnt feel secure raising them in a different enviroment. How soon before the birth did you move her?

Actually it is NOT common for mother rats to eat their babies, unless there is something wrong with the babies. The mother SHOULD be separated from her colony for the safety of the babies. The only time a mother would eat her babies is if there were something wrong with them (they were dead, dying, or sick), or there was something wrong with her (weakened from a complicated birth, usually this means the babies are also weakened). It would take a LOT of stress, not just being moved to a birthing cage, for a healthy mother to eat a healthy litter.

Yes she may of eaten the unhealthy ones... but thats not normally a whole litter. If they were all stillborn you will most likely would of saw some green discharge as well as blood on the bedding which is what leads me to believe she ate them because she was moved. Why do people think such a social animal wants to go through labour and raising the babie alone?!?!

It is a VERY bad idea to leave a mother rat in a cage full of other rats. Do you know why people recommend separating the mother rat? Because there's a risk of injury to the babies. If another rat decides to take over the litter, and isn't lactating, the babies can die from starvation. If the mother rat decides to intervene, the babies can die from being fought over. Sure, everything *might* go alright, but is it really worth the risk?

[Sorraia]

Well just got back from the vets.

Last night just before we went to bed it looked like she was starting to go into labour, left her alone for the night. This morning me and Kate had to be in for 6 am had a quick check seen some movement under fleece left in a rush didn't have time to really check her out. This afternoon we get home from work and she is by her self with some blood on the fleece. Weighs 40 grams less and no bubs. Take her to the emergency vet for x-rays but no babies, best guess she had stillborns and ate them which apparently is common for the mom to do to unhealthy pups.

I'm sorry to hear that the babies are gone. It's hard to say what happened. Most likely there was something wrong with the litter, that is the most likely scenario. There was no way to know how many babies there were. If it were a normal sized litter of around 12 babies, it would be unusual (but not impossible) for all to be stillborn, but if it were a small litter (say 2-4 babies, which does happen) it's very possible.

[ema-leigh]

Actually if your colony is balanced the other does will not harm the babies. If the cage is large enough and there are seperate nesting boxes.... my guess is that you keep ALOT of rats so have not experienced perfect colony harmony and you have to seperate (Sorraia).

If you are going to move a pregnant doe you have to do it like at least 2 weeks before shes due so she can get used to her surroundings and feel safe and secure. If she built a nest in her old cage, and you moved her you most likely upset her which can lead to them eating the entire litter as they no longer feel safe. Its a survival instinct, as the smell of the babies draws predators and she doesnt have her colony to protect her. In the wild other does would help out with the babies and in some cases they even can even produce milk for them. If your other does did reabsorb they would most likely still make milk and would of helped out.

Judging by your does weight gain, I'd say it was a litter over 7 and its unlikely they were all stillborn. And I do breed myself, so I am talking from experience.

[Sorraia]

Actually if your colony is balanced the other does will not harm the babies. If the cage is large enough and there are seperate nesting boxes.... my guess is that you keep ALOT of rats so have not experienced perfect colony harmony and you have to seperate (Sorraia).

Actually, no, that's not the case. It is NOT about "balance". In the wild rats live in colonies, but our pets are NOT in the wild. They are far removed from the wild. Their natural instincts have been tweaked to the point that they no longer even act as wild rats. Cage size isn't going to help if one rat is intent on playing nanny and the mother rat doesn't want her to. That is going to result in a tug-of-war over babies.

You have also taken a bold step to flat out insult me and how I keep my rats. So, since you seem to know so much about me as a breeder, tell me what kind of cages I keep my rats in? How many rats to a cage? How much play time do they get? How many rats do I really have? No cheating by looking at my website.

If you are going to move a pregnant doe you have to do it like at least 2 weeks before shes due so she can get used to her surroundings and feel safe and secure. If she built a nest in her old cage, and you moved her you most likely upset her which can lead to them eating the entire litter as they no longer feel safe. Its a survival instinct, as the smell of the babies draws predators and she doesnt have her colony to protect her. In the wild other does would help out with the babies and in some cases they even can even produce milk for them. If your other does did reabsorb they would most likely still make milk and would of helped out.

This is not true. You speak about "balanced" colonies, and yet your comments only describe unbalanced rats. A mother rat will NOT eat her babies just because she is moved, unless there is something VERY seriously wrong with her or the babies. While this *might* be survival instinct in the wild, these are PETS, they are NOT wild animals. They should NOT act like wild rats. If they do, they are NOT pets.

edited for typo

[RatWitch]

Actually if your colony is balanced the other does will not harm the babies. If the cage is large enough and there are seperate nesting boxes.... my guess is that you keep ALOT of rats so have not experienced perfect colony harmony and you have to seperate (Sorraia).

If you are going to move a pregnant doe you have to do it like at least 2 weeks before shes due so she can get used to her surroundings and feel safe and secure. If she built a nest in her old cage, and you moved her you most likely upset her which can lead to them eating the entire litter as they no longer feel safe. Its a survival instinct, as the smell of the babies draws predators and she doesnt have her colony to protect her. In the wild other does would help out with the babies and in some cases they even can even produce milk for them. If your other does did reabsorb they would most likely still make milk and would of helped out.

Judging by your does weight gain, I'd say it was a litter over 7 and its unlikely they were all stillborn. And I do breed myself, so I am talking from experience.

In the wild female rats do not nest together.

[lilspaz68]

That's better, you are learning to say the famous words "In my opinion"...defuses lots of situations  

Have you seen this video?  It will help you and others really understand how a wild rat colony works.

http://www.ratlife.org/

[AMJ087]

Ema... As far as the mealworm comment...Give me a break!!! Any animal would be curious over a MOVING insect. Ive seen plenty of dogs and cats eat insects! That statement is just irrelevant. You also said other females will help feed the pups. But as someone else has stated too if the other females are not or have not been recently pregnant they ahve no milk to help! Some females will become irritated witht he pups of they try to nurse from her and could cause problems. There are A LOT of problems that could happen. I do agree sometimes it does work and some females will tolerate and in specific cases will help. However you are out of line telling a member that what they diod caused the babies to be eaten. You do not know that and its not true!!! Many times and in many different situations things happen. Something very well could have been wrong with all the pups, maybe some came out alive but something was very wrong with them! You dont know!!!!! I believe something was wrong with the pups.

[AMJ087]

Ema I believe many people are trying to correct you actaully, you just wont listen. Thread locked!