New Girl, Whole Lot of Problems, PLEASE HELP! (Long)

[BumblebeexSweat]

So, I came into the 'new rat parent' world a little bit abruptly last night and saying that I was ill-prepared and ill-equipped is a huge understatement.

Long story short, I have a snake; a ball python to be exact. She (the snake) has grown to a point were I am offering her a couple mice (sorry, it's kind of the nature of keeping a snake) each feeding so I thought "Well, why not just buy one rat instead of 2 adult mice?" I go to a local reptile specialty store, buy a rat and take her home. After I get the rat home, I sit her next to Isabelle's (the snake's) cage for a couple of minutes to 'scent the room'. The rat started to make really helpless, scared little noises and basically....she breaks my heart; I can't feed her to Isabelle. So guess what? New rat parent without any sort of enclosure/cage for her whatsoever. So, off I go to the pet store and the only thing that I found was a cage about the size of your average bird cage (she is small, so this will do for a couple of days until I can build her a condo). My boyfriend came over and helped me assemble the cage and we decided to name her Mew, for the little sounds that she makes.

So, I hopped on the internet and started doing research and found this forum (love you guys, by the way). Found out the sounds that she was making sounded like she has an upper respiratory infection. More good news (now I do want to mention that it is not a constant squeaking. She seems to breathe normally most of the time and will start squeaking at random). When I put her in her new cage, she hopped all over the pellets that I had put in there for her (probably the best food she has ever gotten in her life the way she was acting) and I put some little treats in there. I also put a little water in a dish (will be getting a water bottle today though) and she seemed to drink it and eat up the pellets like nobody’s business.

Woke up this morning and she was at the top of the cage near the water looking a little lethargic (eyes half open, kind of squeaking).  I try to offer her a treat and she starts sniffing my finger and then bites, HARD (blood just started pouring out of my finger). I don't blame her at all. I'm sure she is still petrified and is probably not feeling too great so the bite was completely justified. But I hope she doesn’t remember that if she bites me, I'll pull away from her. (Heard about the oven mitts and am totally going to try that) I am going to be taking her to the vet tomorrow morning (they specialize in small animals. Took my rabbit there for treatment) and see if they can give me anything for the RI. I would get her a buddy so she could feel a little more secure but she is sick so that is kind of out of the question. I’m thinking about going back to the reptile store and letting them know that there is an RI infection in the small rats (I’m pretty sure this kind of thing is easy to spread). 

Any advice?   

[BumblebeexSweat]

*** Update***

I got an appointment at the vet for later on today to see if they can do anything about her RI so hopefully we can get her some meds and she will be okay (or if it's not RI, figure out what it is).

[ema-leigh]

Congrats on becoming a new rat parent.

First off, I would definatly call the store you got them from and tell them about the quality of their animals and that you are now having to pay vet fees etc.
Its not good to feed sick rats to snakes either I'd assume?

What kind of food are you feeding her. You'll be suprised to hear that most rat commerical foods are not a sufficient diet for them. Lab blocks are what I would recommend, or research into making your own mix.

The vet should be able to help you out with any ailments she has, so I'll leave the medical side to them.

I think your doing a great job so far, she will definatly LOVE a room mate. You could get her a friend now, as you'll need to quarentine for three weeks before putting them in together.

There are plenty of threads on this site, which should help you get your foot in the door of the rat world. And there are tons of members who will help you out with anything you need.

With her biting you, I'd give her more time to settle in. If she was in a cage with her siblings then she may just be frightened to be alone. Temp her with tasty treats, but dont force anything on her for the next few days. After that handle her for over 20 minutes at a time, hiding spots like pockets or hoodies are great in making them feel secure.

Good luck, if I missed anything let me know 

[BumblebeexSweat]

Its not good to feed sick rats to snakes either I'd assume?

I would definitely assume not. I mean, a snake has a pretty kick a** 'break down' system in them, but to eliminate an infection in an animal that they consume? I wouldn't take that kind of chance.

What kind of food are you feeding her. You'll be surprised to hear that most rat commercial foods are not a sufficient diet for them. Lab blocks are what I would recommend, or research into making your own mix.

I picked up something that seems pretty generic (Forti-Diet I believe? It's the big pellets) so she would have at least something to eat and tied her over until I get a real diet working for her. I assumed that they (the feeder rats) didn't get any fresh greens or anything else awesomely delicious and tried to maybe give her something that the store might have. I will try to wean her off of that stuff and onto a more balanced diet slowly, she is already stressed enough and I don't need rattie runs all over the place! I really do want to make my own mix though. I did this with a rabbit that I had and I miss doing it

I think your doing a great job so far, she will definitely LOVE a room mate. You could get her a friend now, as you'll need to quarantine for three weeks before putting them in together.

Agreed, for sure. I just don't know where I can pick up a nice, healthy rat around here without going to the same place I got Mew from (and probably have to deal with another RI) or Petco!  And I REALLY don't want to go to Petco....If anyone lives in SoCal, let me know!! I found some craigslist rats but those are probably worse than Petco. I don't know. I'm pretty lost on that.

hiding spots like pockets or hoodies are great in making them feel secure.

I saw (now I'm second guessing it) on some rat care site that you shouldn't put a hide in the new cage until she gets used to it because she might become territorial of said hide. Now, I felt that she really needed one (judging by her terrified state) so I bought her one regardless of that little tid-bit of info I found. Should I leave it in there?

Thank you for all the advice!!! I can't tell you how much your reply means to me!    Off to the vet to get her checked out!

[ema-leigh]

Yeah I dont own snakes purely for the fact I would keep all of their suposed food as pets and it would starve! lol. If I did own one, I would never feed them a sick rat either.

The Forti-Diet Ive never tried, I have read on this site that its not that great - but much better than any commercial rat diet. I would definatly recommend Mazuri or Harlan if you can get it. I feed Mazuri F6 - the protiens a little high for what I would like (23%). Im looking into ordering Harlan online but I heard $1000 is the minimun order you can place!! 
I make my own mix also, its fun! I feed the mix for their staple diet, but always make sure I have a few Mazuri lab blocks lying around. My guys only nibble about 1/4 of a block each a day, so I only put a few blocks in to keep it fresh. I imagine your girl would think shes died and gone to heaven if you give her some fresh veg + treats. The way to their hearts is definatly in their stomache lol 

Its tough to find a good breeder or even just anyone who gives their rats a good quality of care. Unfortuently Im in Canada so cant really help you out there. There are stickies here with lists of good breeders - maybe try there. The only advise I will give you is wait until you find the perfect girl. Buying from petstores tells the store there is more demand for the rats so they go ahead and breed/order more. You will also most likely end up with a sick rat too. There are lots of rescues out there too. If you are able to travel, search in the surrounding areas. The money spent on the extra gas would most likely be way less than future vet bills etc from petstore rats - so its worth it in the long run.

I think not having a hiding spot is cruel as they are flight animals. But thats my own opionon. If everythings done properly then you shouldnt have any problems with dominance. All my rats Ive raised from babies and Ive never had a single temperment issue. A friend and a hiding spot will make her feel more secure while shes adjusting to her surroundings. They are curious little creatures so you want to use that to your advantage - she will eventually want to come and check you out when shes comftable with it.

Thank you for all the advice!!! I can't tell you how much your reply means to me!    Off to the vet to get her checked out!

No problem, this site is awesome for finding out answers to any of your questions. PM me anytime, Im active on the site. I have to say its awesome that you decieded to keep this little girl and make her better. (Even though I know snakes have to eat! lol) Most people dont even think rats are worth the time or money.

[BumblebeexSweat]

So, got back from the vet. Turns out Mew is a boy!  Good thing I went to the vet or I would have probably had a litter on my hands which would ultimitely be a 'f*** my life' moment.

Also turns out that I was right about the RI. He said that it was pretty bad but because there was no discharge coming out of anything, I probably caught it in time before it became a full blown lung infection. And on top of that, Mew is underweight (doctor could feel his ribs ) and he has lice!!! So, he perscribed some Baytril Suspension and some Vibramycin for the RI and some stuff called Revolution for the lice. Soooooo yeah, pretty expensive little Mew so far, but I'm sure he'll be worth it. The vet said that for a "feeder rat" he was pretty tame and probably only bit me because he was scared (like you said). 

Just a fun little fact that I learned that I'm is basically usless to evreyone on this board but I talk to the vet about the petstore selling me a ssick rat and how that might affect my snake and the vet told me that surprisingly enough, there is no transmittal of disease. Weird, I know.

I just really hope that he is going to be okay. OHHH MY GOD!!!! He's curling up into a little ball and looks like he is having a really hard time breathing. WHAT DO I DO?

[ema-leigh]

Mew is a boy 

Sounds to me like your vet knows what hes talking about, I hope it all clears it up. That Revolution one (Kitten + Puppy) is awesome!

That is kind of weird, I would of thought it would make them ill. They really must have a kick a** digestive system.

Unfortuently vets can be costly at times, but for what the rats give back in return they are so worth it. Hopefully now he can go on to life a healthy life.

I'd advise putting him on a hot water bottle (wrapped in a towel) and take him to the emergency vet. Theres not a specific thing you can do to help him unless you know for sure what he has. I hope he will be okay  Keep us updated......

I'll keep you in my thoughts!

[lilspaz68]

I am not surprised about the non-transmittal to a snake, as I am sure wild snakes catch/eat sickly mice/rats/prey all the time (much easier) and aren't affected.

Sounds like a URI, but not deep in the lungs which is good   Doxycycline (vibramycin) and baytril are a great combo for rat respiratory issues.  One thing you have to remember is that you cannot feed any calcium containing foods within 2 hours of the meds...the calcium binds to the doxy and renders it ineffective.
You may also want to consider probiotics since meds often kill the good bacteria (gut flora) as well as the bad, so you can offer live culture yogurt once a day (just a dab) to help this.

Revolution absolutely rocks for lice/mites etc.  One treatment, safe, effective, and done

Btw the petstore won't care if you decided to keep a sick feeder rat and have to pay the bills, since they aren't supposed to live long anyways...

Make sure Mew is hydrated, warm, fed if possible (try baby cereal, and/
or Ensure/Boost), nice liquidy foods as he can lick, breathe, lick, breathe.  Sick rats often won't touch hard items since they cant breathe while gnawing/chewing.
You should see a difference in 3-4 days when the antibiotics get to a certain level in the blood and start to kick URI butt.

The forti-diet blocks will do for now, once your baby boy is feeling better we will discuss mixes.  I think you would like Suebee's Mix (google it or go to http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html).  Instead of dog kibble you can use lab blocks, but not both.

As for SoCal?  Tons of needy munchkins MUCH better than supporting the petstore industry and likely a lot healthier, more socialized too.  I would definitely check out craigslist and kijiji for an oops litter being raised at home.  Any clue how old Mew is?  Can you post a pic of your new ratfriend?

Btw welcome to the world of being wrapped around little ratty paws.   

[BumblebeexSweat]

Sounds like a URI, but not deep in the lungs which is good  

How would I be able to tell for sure if it has got in the lungs? When I was giving him meds, I noticed some red at the top of his nose (might be some scabbing from messing with his nose so much?) so that kind of worries me...And is there some fancy trick for feeding meds through a syringe? Everytime I try to give it to him, he just grabs it and pushes away (instead of biting it when I go in from the side of the mouth).

He is still eating the pellets and I put a carrot in there and he ate about half of that but i'm sure that he would like some yogurt so I will stop by a store on my lunch break.

Thanks for all the great advice guys....I'm still a little nervous about Mew though. He woke me up several times last night with his cooing.  I took him out today and he didn't bite me! So i'm sure if he makes it, he will be an awesome little guy.

Sorry for the crappy pic...

[Rattieluv]

Awe!  He's so tiny...and adorable!  I'm sure that if you continue proper vet care he will be just fine.  This is a great forum to join.  Lots of good info!   Something to give you some hope - I purchased my girls from a small crappy pet store (only one around in my po-dunk town) - they were feeder rats too - and one of them had a RI but after a trip to the vet and some meds - she was fine.  Both of my girls are now very healthy and love attention.   The way to their hearts was yogies.  It seems to be a favorite with most rats.

Oh..and welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of rats.

[BumblebeexSweat]

Awe!  He's so tiny...and adorable!  I'm sure that if you continue proper vet care he will be just fine.  This is a great forum to join.  Lots of good info!   Something to give you some hope - I purchased my girls from a small crappy pet store (only one around in my po-dunk town) - they were feeder rats too - and one of them had a RI but after a trip to the vet and some meds - she was fine.  Both of my girls are now very healthy and love attention.   The way to their hearts was yogies.  It seems to be a favorite with most rats.

Oh..and welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of rats.

Thanks for the kind words!! Deep down i'm pretty confident that he will be fine. It's just that little voice saying "OMG! He made a weirder sound this time! He's going to die! Do something!" I might just be crazy though After I gave him his medicine today (there was...so much poo. how could all that poo come out of a tiny little rat?!) he curled up in his strawberry hide with his head poking out and fell asleep. I took this as a good sign? I don't know. It's just that tiny little voice that's bugging me now.

It kind of sucks that the only time I am handeling him is to give him meds. I hope he doesn't resent me later or think of me as the bad lady with the weird tasting goo everytime I want to take him out.

[lilspaz68]

The poo is nasty and smelly and loose?  Its called fear poop, and it will go away once he stops being so frightened. he is a very very young baby, say 4 weeks old?  Too young to be away from mom really.  But they often sell them at 3 weeks old as snake food.

Is he eating?  You could try squirting his dose of meds into a smallish amount of baby cereal and see if he eats it himself. I prefer the flavoured baby cereal as it covers the taste best.  Is he able to drink from a bottle or is he too young and weak?  Dehydration can kill rats, especially sick little babies.  So the watery baby cereal should help with so much.  I would also put down a shallow dish with water in it just in case.

The red discharge is called porphyrin, and it shows up when a rat is stressed, ill or has an eye injury...it can come from their nose and eyes.  A little in the morning groomed off is fine, but when it persists baby is not feeling well enough to clean it off himself.

He's beautiful *heaat*

[BumblebeexSweat]

The poo is nasty and smelly and loose?  Its called fear poop,

Surprisingly, no. It was well formed but it was just a lot. I'm sure your'e right though. What's a little poop, right?

He is eating but I do want to get some yogurt and now that you mention it, some baby food. I had a dish in there with some water that looked like he had sipped from but I bought a water bottle last night and put it in there and took out the dish. I will definitely be putting the dish back in there if I see he is not drinking from the water bottle, which I wouldn't be surprised if he's not. 

A little in the morning groomed off is fine, but when it persists baby is not feeling well enough to clean it off himself.

I see him grooming his head/face a lot but there still seems to be red everytime I look. Should I help him clean it off?

I feel bad that he is so young and away from his mum.... is this going to affect him greatly in the long run? Health, mental state, etc.? Is he too young to fight off the infection? WORRY WORRY WORRY!!! 

[lilangel]

Oh what a cute little guy!

Congrats on being a new rattie owner!

[BumblebeexSweat]

Oh what a cute little guy!

Congrats on being a new rattie owner!

Thanks!!! Wish it wouldn't be so stressful (for the both of us!). But, meh....what are you going to do?