Thoughts on the "No Intentional Breeding" Rule
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Thread: Thoughts on the "No Intentional Breeding" Rule

  1. #1
    Administrator Jaguar's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on the "No Intentional Breeding" Rule

    Hey folks!

    I doubt many of you around these days remember when or why this rule was put in place.

    More or less, we forbade the discussion of intentional breeding because it often led to flame wars about morals/ethics and differing opinions. It became a headache for the mods to deal with and divided the community between "pro breeding" and "anti breeding".

    To combat some people (breeders that were active on the forum) feeling targeted or silenced, we created a submission program where you could submit your rattery for approval to post on the site. Even passing the submission, you are heavily restricted in what and where you can actually post info about your rattery. We have the mod team look through these submitted websites and decide, based on our own personal guidelines (and others including BWR's "red flags" post), to approve or deny these ratteries. It became another burden on the mods - not just for the time required, but also the pressure of having to draw the line between good breeder and bad.

    To summarize, it's a confusing and rather crappy system.

    I've been thinking about it for a while, and I've been considering at least a reform of the rules. I would like to know the forum's opinion first, though - both members and breeders (approved or not).

    Do you think this rule is fair? Do you find it easy to understand? Do you think it fosters open discussion and a friendly and welcoming environment on the forum? Do you think there could be some changes - and, if so, what do you suggest?


    Rest well Matilda, Rufus, Oliver, Sebastian, Miles, Leno, Gabby, Ona, Cami, Luna, Blue boy, Fuzzy boy, Benjamin, and Bernard.


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  3. #2
    Little Fuzzy
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    Hello. Are you thinking about restricting breeders more or loosening restrictions more? I can only imagine how big a burden it is vetting breeders but since you guys/gals have so much more experience and know what to look for it is a huge help for the less experienced rat lovers. Any discussion over animals we love can get tricky and sometimes can lead to arguments. The biggest thing we need is to have respect for everyones opinion. We need more good breeders and to hear from them. I would hate for them to not have a voice. I already feel like I have learned so much just from reading websites from breeders that contribute here to breeders I have found myself. I do understand that their are so many rats in need of homes. So why breed more? Well for one, health and temperament will hopefully be most important for breeding. A rats life is so short so any chance we can make them healthier would be amazing. I have a rescue dog and cat. so I think rescuing animals in need is amazing. With dogs having a mix breed(mutt) tends to create better health overall. Purebreeds come with an assortment of problems. Our dog couldn't be more perfect for our family. I couldn't even imagine our family without him. As far as our 1st ratties I want to adopt from a great breeder and hopefully have a healthier and more social rat. Just my preference. This forum has been amazing for me. I didn't know how bad pet stores could be. I'm glad I have joined. Ps. Didn't want to be ther 1st to respond because I'm so new but since no one has answered I figured let's start it up.

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    Squishy Laprat Jokerfest's Avatar
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    I personally think there should be a sub forum that maybe only registered users could see and go into for breeders. That way if anyone has issues and doesn't want to see such talk they dont have to go into the forum.
    I think there will always be moral issues, for example if someone is irresponsible and posts raving about how cute their litter who were bred from unhealthy parents are I'm sure there will be conflict in the topic.. But I think allowing talk of intentional breeding in it's own space could help those who want to learn and do things right. I think it'd also help everyone interested in rats in general learn things about them even if they dont want to be a breeder.

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    Squishy Laprat Kelsbels's Avatar
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    I like Jokerfest's idea! I was going to say some to the degree that there's always going to be controversy popping up now and then, but couldn't formulate any ideas, but Jokerfest nailed it.

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    Squishy Laprat moonkissed's Avatar
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    I support allowing breeders to discuss breeding. Breeding responsibly is important and not allowing any discussion I think sends a bad message that it is wrong and also often turns people away from breeders and then they often go to pet stores instead.

    but... I do not think random person throwing together their rats should be allowed to post/share that. We shouldn't support BYBs or make their irresponsible behavior seem acceptable. How would one know the difference? Well without taking a ton of effort from the mods, simply people with established ratteries, website/facebook page or such is atleast something.

    I do think that breeding discussion which shares some knowledge is beneficial. Talking about proper set ups, genetics, care etc... is all great! It may help someone learn how to do things properly. But i do think there is a very delicate line between sharing knowledge and giving people ideas. Honestly if someone is serious about it they should not be trying to learn it off a pet forum but actual good breeding sources.



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    Administrator Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfest View Post
    I personally think there should be a sub forum that maybe only registered users could see and go into for breeders. That way if anyone has issues and doesn't want to see such talk they dont have to go into the forum.
    I think there will always be moral issues, for example if someone is irresponsible and posts raving about how cute their litter who were bred from unhealthy parents are I'm sure there will be conflict in the topic.. But I think allowing talk of intentional breeding in it's own space could help those who want to learn and do things right. I think it'd also help everyone interested in rats in general learn things about them even if they dont want to be a breeder.
    That's a good idea! One of my concerns with allowing the discussion again was that we'd get members signing up solely to ask for breeding advice/advertise their litters/etc. It's unfortunately prevalent on some other pet forums, but I think making it a hidden members-only forum would curb it to some degree.


    Rest well Matilda, Rufus, Oliver, Sebastian, Miles, Leno, Gabby, Ona, Cami, Luna, Blue boy, Fuzzy boy, Benjamin, and Bernard.


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    Squishy Laprat Kelsbels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's a good idea! One of my concerns with allowing the discussion again was that we'd get members signing up solely to ask for breeding advice/advertise their litters/etc. It's unfortunately prevalent on some other pet forums, but I think making it a hidden members-only forum would curb it to some degree.
    It also might be good to have another limitation step, just like the hello forum, that people need to post a certain number of posts or be active for a week before they can access that forum? That way people signing up just to access that forum can't do it immediately. Just an idea though, I don't know how possible it is.

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    Squishy Laprat Jokerfest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsbels View Post
    It also might be good to have another limitation step, just like the hello forum, that people need to post a certain number of posts or be active for a week before they can access that forum? That way people signing up just to access that forum can't do it immediately. Just an idea though, I don't know how possible it is.
    Ohh this would be a good idea too I agree with this.

  11. #9

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    I for one would like to see more involvement and posts from reputable breeders. Even though I have no intention of breeding, I want to continue learning and hearing about what's going on in the breeding community. Yes, I can (and have) talked to breeders directly to get information, but forums offer a unique platform for research. I do understand that the mods probably will have their workload increased. If you had a subforum for this would 'stickies' help? Really give out the ethics and a description of what responsible breeders have to be concerned about (not actually 'how') and that one of the best ways, if somebody is truly interested in doing this, is to find a reputable breeder to be a mentor?

    When I google 'how to breed rats', it would be nice to see these forum posts and stickies up there at the top. Is that possible?

    I'm not sure what this forum is capable of doing...could there be a subforum like 'ask the experts (breeders)' where you have a panel of breeders who could then discuss their experiences on topics forum members ask/suggest?

  12. #10

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    I'll chime in to speak for the technical aspects. Having stickies explaining these "ethical" standards would be simple enough, and while we can't directly influence what shows up in Google Searches, if we have the section hidden from unregistered users, it won't come up. Not endorsing whether or not to have it one way or the other, just speaking technical.

    Having a "panel" of experts would probably be something that would need time to be built up, but we could add a subsection dedicated to them, where they could post threads for discussion.

    Whatever you guys want for this, we'll be happy with and do our best to set it up.

    Kevin

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