Rats and Snakes?

[Kif_Kroaker]

I'll have to look into that more. I've never been to a reptile show before.

They're very fun. If its a big show, you'll see a bunch of crazy morphs you never thought you would see in person. That's one of the things that I wish rats had...There are SO many pattern and color morphs in reptiles. It would be really cool if rats had as much variation from selective breeding.

[TachisMom]

I've kept snakes, and would still love to. I had a ball python (my sweet Princess, RIP), and she went with me everywhere (as long as it was warm enough). And of course, I have my beautiful, loving rats.

My snake was always fed frozen, thawed prey. It's less dangerous for the snake to feed this way, and I didn't ever want my snake to get hurt on my account. Also, while I understand fully that snakes need to eat, just as rats and my kitty does, I couldn't watch a scared mouse or rat run around and get eatten.

[Isamurat]

We had a snake as kids, only a little garter snake which lived on earthworms. I've never had a problem with snakes that eat rats though, i just know for me I am and always will be a rat owner, I never really clicked with our snake.

I do actually massively respect people that have snakes and attempt to feed them on well raised prey housed in good conditions and fed a good quality diet, rather than going for rodent farm style frozen or live prey animals bred and raised in tiny tanks with no stimulation.. I've met a few in my time and think its the best way to do it though no doubt very hard. For a start the quality of nutrition for the snake would be better from an animal allowed to run and exercise and eat a healthy diet. And from a welfare point of view it is far nicer for the rats. Unfortunatly this is very rare, its not cheap, and RUB's are just easy.

[sherriwat]

i breed ball pythons and i have pet rats. i went to buy feeders from a new breeder to show up and find out i was gonna be getting live feeders so i bought what i could and kept as pets. i only feed frozen thawed to my snakes.

[Isamurat]

What about the welfare of the rats pre freezing? Do you know the conditions they are born and raised in, generally its not good. Avoiding feeding live where possible is a good start but that affects a very short time in a rats life.

[LightningWolf]

Isamurat I'm with you on that one.

I actually used to watch videos of feeder set ups with rats. I mean yeah they were the racks but the really good ones (the nice guys) made sure not to over crowd them, a few even had plastic tub (bin cages) that were well ventilated. There was actually a guy who had a litter and in it was a baby black rat who he fell in love with. Well he tried everything he could to find a home for him. He didn't want to give him to the pet store, he would of been sold as a live feeder (This is a guy who was very against live feeding). I think he didn't want him to live a feeder rats life or something like that so he made the decision after a few weeks of searching to put him down for frozen food. There are other stories similar to this.

Actually I know a few feeder breeders who name their breeders and keep them as pets and when they retire give them a bigger cage, or for females use them as nannies for the younger girls to help out. A few even give them out of cage time or will play with them. I've seen a few use cages but the most common here are large plastic tubs (like 60 quarts or more, I think that's what you mean by RUBS? cause I've seen it used for bin cages on mouse forums) with well ventilated sides and top. Even seen a few use this to stack them on top of each other or connect them together to give them more room, but this is often for larger colonies. A few give wheels, others boxes, one guy even gave some of his colonies hammocks made from old shirts and towels. As I've already mentioned a few use racks but the good ones get very large tubs/cement mixing trays but the good ones who do that do try to keep the welfare and health of their rats in good condition.

Granite most people don't share my view. I like people who raise their own live stock (or in this case feeders) cause in the end it's healthier and better for both prey and predator.

[Isamurat]

Rub's are plastic tubs stored in racks, most are too small. Mainly they have a bit of mesh in there lid but I believe by adding mesh side panals too (though cages would be ideal). I do think if you could give a wheel and something to climb on (maybe a branch as it would double as gnawing) then you can make a big improvemt. Cycling the females so they get down time between litters would be a vast improvement too. Then add in occasional fresh veg or left overs and a decent lab block and you've massivly improved the set up. Also using humane methods of euthanasia.

I've spoken to few people who try along these lines, they also keep their breeding rats as pets and give them regular breaks. It's not the same as I keep my rats but I know those animals are respected and have good quality of life.

[LightningWolf]

Most snake people give their rats breaks, anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks often after weaning. Some times shorter, sometimes longer. Some will add in foods in as well like seeds and nuts as treats, along with other stuff, but not all do this. the only thing they can't feed them is dog food due to it having red dye which will kill a snake. Most use decent lab blocks, some use Mazuri and I think some do use Oxbox but not as often as Mazuri. When that whole D3 or B3 thing broke out and killed a lot of rats a lot of them weren't very happy.

I've never heard of one (they probably exist though) that used an inhumane way of euthinization. They often use humane ones. Then again I get all of this off a snake forum where they pride themselves on their snakes And their feeders. Kind of funny to see a guy showing off a blue hooded or a dalmatian that was born by accident. Trust me, some of them get really proud if something they've never seen pops up.

Ok then I guess RUBS are different then what we have here. We have Racks, which are similar but they mainly use Large cement mixing trays (which are 2 ft by 3 ft by like 8 inches tall) and Some will have under bed totes are are bigger as well, but not often. Most here are hand made since it's way too expensive to buy one (Saw one going for $500 once). Most typically don't go smaller then that though. Some do but they often aren't liked as much as their rats are over crowded and sick. There actually are some who are trying to selectively breed for rats less prone to URI.

Uh, I guess things are very different there then.

[BlackCat99]

I have a lot of friends who keep snakes and rats. Most of them refuse to feed those pre frozen guys you get from petco as they don't know where they come from. Most of them get their rats live and from a source that they know keeps their rats healthy and not confined to nasty little cages. They do put them to sleep before feeding though using various methods like the co2 system before feeding so the rat doesn't go through the panic of being strangled and their snake wont get hurt. I used to own a snake before while I had rats but he was relocated before he ate anything bigger than pinky rats. I don't know if I could feed a full grown adult rat to a snake specially if it looked like one of my adorable pet rats O.o.

[RatBreeder]

I have both rats (15) and snakes (10). I do have my pets & my breeders. I fall in love with quite a few of my babies, and do not euthanize, and when it comes time to euthanize them, I can't do it, (I have a Co2 chamber, but can not do the deed, my husband does )

I know rats and mice are not part of a ball pythons diet, but as stated they are cheaper.