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Discussion Starter #1
Javakittie you are way out of context.
All of my adult rats and mice are pets. My sig on KS has my rats and mice listed. The #s are not updated often. The offspring that I don't want to keep as pets are feeders or pets for other people. I do not sell live feeders. They are humanely euthanized.
www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml
According to this website all of my cages/amount of rats in them are ideal. Anyone is more then welcome to come to my home and see my rats. There are no resp problem or tumors in my colony. I have bred those issues out. No my rats do not die of natural causes because when they become old they are humanly euthanized before they start to suffer.
I have 4 20 longs tank with toppers and there are 4 rats in each. Then I have 1 40 tank with a topper that I made and that topper consists of 3 wire cages. And there are right now 19 female rats in there.
My rats have plenty of room and enrichment. They are all happy and well socialized. I breed them for their personality. I don't have to train them to be nice or to take treats. They are taking treats at the age of 4 weeks. Just beacuse I don't cook for my rats or hold each one for an hour a day does not mean that my rats do not have excellent care. If the rats are not stressed at my presence then I do not need to condition them. Yes, I do hold them as I see fit. Because it is not necessary to hold my rats daily. They are housed no less then 3. If I have a rat that, for some reason, had to be housed singley then I would hold it everyday.
If you don't believe what I say then oh well. I know that I take excellent care of all my animals. I have friends that are vets are they have been to my home several times and love the way I care for my animals and even say how well socialized they are. One vet said "wow, they are all waiting for treats and not hiding."
Just beacuse some of my rodents go as feeders does not mean that I don't care and love them. I am not here to get grief from anyone. I am here to help people and rats. If you don't want me here then that is fine. And plese don't spread lies about me and my rat care. Sorry for the joke on KS. If you don't make light of situations then life can become pretty depressing.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You can see some of my set ups in the background. The 40 tank topper is not on since I was int the middle of cleaning when I took the pics. At this moment I do not have pics of just my set ups on the computer. I also make my own feeders.
 

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You cannot say that your 'colony' is healthy if they are euthanized upon old age.

I can't say I much like the look of your setup either... seems... cramped. What is the bedding? How often are the tanks cleaned? :?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Aspen bedding. They are cleaned as needed. It varies per cage. Everything gets changed, new bedding, new boxes, clean PVC and toys. The tanks and toppers gets disinfected and hosed.
 

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How often on average?
 

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Your cages are filthy...I have no idea what vet in their right minds would say what you are doing, is right. 20 gal tanks, even with the toppers I see, arnt big enough for 4 rats...A 40 gal with a toper isnt big enough for 19 rats....

Where do you get "it is not necessary to hold my rats daily"? it actaully IS necessary to hold rats daily.

*dont spread lies about me and my rat care*

Okay, we are not in 1st grade here...and I dont think any one this forum would go out of there way to ask that imature.

Im sorry, but I dont even know what else to say...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The cages are not filthy, the pics are blurry. Look at the rat cage calculator, my cages are ideal. It is YOUR opinion that 4 is too many. You have no idea how big the topper is for the 40 tank so you can't say that it is too small.
Why is it necessary to hold rats daily? And what ever reason you think it is is just YOUR OPINION. It's not in the animal welfare act that they have to be held everyday. And in fact my cage space is way more then the AWA requirements.
"Okay, we are not in 1st grade here...and I dont think anyon one this forum would go out of there way to ask that imature."
Look at some of the previous posts, that is why I made that comment.
"Im sorry, but I dont even know what else to say..."
Then don't. Let me do what I came here to do without you harassing me.
 

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How are you in any way able to give advise if your not even doing whats right for yoru "pets"? First of all, tanks shouldnt be used for rats AT ALL!Rats do need to be held daily for the simple purpose of human interaction that is suppose to be happening between pet and owner! AND YOU SHOULDNT BE BREEDING RATS JUST TO BREED THEM! YOU CANT INSURE THAT THEY HAVE NO HEALTH PROBLEMS!
 

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... Here we go again with the "harassment" issue ...I think people take the word a bit too lightly.

I don't think it is just Jennielove's opinion that rats need to be held daily, they are highly intelligent creatures, they need daily stimulus in order to remain healthy active creatures. And I'm sorry I don't care how big your topper is, You cannot cram 19 rats into a 40 gallon aquarium and say that it is big enough.. anyway aquariums were not made for the likes of rats. I use a 50 gallon aquarium as a quarantine cage for my rats, and the most i've ever put into it is 3 which is too many.

Do you offer your rats any time outside of their cages?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That is all YOUR Opinion, no facts. Tanks with toppers are fine as long as the room they are in is of controlled temperatures and there is ventilation. Just tanks and a hot room is what is wrong. I can insure they don't have any health problems. I don't breed just to breed, I breed to feed my herps, for pets, and I supply a boa breeder with frozen 1 month old rats. When I have a rat die it gets necropsied and if need be I give it to a veterinary pathologist. All deaths and reason for deaths are documented.
 

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What is it that you came here to do FreedomDove? As far as a forty gallon being big enough for 19 rats I am a little wary of that since I have a five foot cage that is only big enough for 14. I think you need to reassess your way of taking care of animals. Rats need interaction they are socail animals and should have time with their humans at least an hour a day to know that they are loved. My guys all get alot of attention and when I have something to do with my kids and miss out on ratty time it shows in their attitudes. Also tanks even with toppers are a little iffy due to the amonia build up. I had a 75 gallon aquarium for my guys and had to clean it out every day!!! Those cages do look dirty and even if the pictures are blurry I can see alot of poop. Now I am not saying you are wrong that they are clean but if you can see poop in a cage it is not from a blurry picture. With takns like that you should be scrubbing them every other day if not more.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes, I will let one cage out at a time and they get to run where ever they get to.
"I don't think it is just Jennielove's opinion that rats need to be held daily, they are highly intelligent creatures, they need daily stimulus in order to remain healthy active creatures."
They do not need a human for this. They have each other, babies, and environmental enrichment for this. If I just kept one rat per cage with nothing other then bedding it would be a different story.
 

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Listen, we are trying to give you advice, although it has come to you in a negative form, we're trying to tell you that your rats NEED and deserve attention, anyone who has ever owned rats knows that they need daily stimulus. Also if your aquariums are well ventilated thats fine, but still 19 rats is ALOT of rats to have in one enclosure together. Don't try to fight the advice that is going to be given to you because its a losing battle, we're trying to help you and your rats.
 

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No matter the temp, tanks are still very bad ventilation. I have herps too and I know tanks...and rats are NOT ment for them!

I understand that your other pets need these feeders for food, and I have no problem with that, but breeding some of the rats for food and then breeding the rats fors isnt smart, and there is NO way in **** you can say they all die from natural causes becuase you have them all put down...wheres the proof they have no health problems ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It is not alway 19 in that cage, only 6 of them are even adults. It is a holding cage. Like I said and this is the last time, the rat cage calculator says ALL of my cages are fine. If any of the cages were too small then the rats would let me know woth health and temperment issues. And they have none. The animals are the teaches with most issues.
 

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You still haven't answered me on what it is you are doing here? Seems liek you are just starting trouble like you did on goosemoose. Honestly I wash my hands of you since you clearly don't want the advice we are here to offer. this will be my last response to any of your posts!
 

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whatever...in my own thoughts theres no way of helping you. I know tanks, and even with toppers theres no way your cages are suitable.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I don't let them die from natural causes. When they get old I put them to sleep. They are necropsied and like I said before they will go to a vet. pathologist if needed. If there is something medically wrong with a rat you can tell by looking at it. So if there is one that does not appear healthy at 1 month when I would usually gas it, it will then be necropsied.
 
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