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Discussion Starter #1
Okay this really bugs me. I hear this a lot and just needed to get it off my chest. People assume because I have twelve rats, I can't possibly share a bond like they do to their two. Like somehow there is this magical number and if you go over it your rats can't love you.

Anyone who bothers to know me knows my rats love me. My rats give kisses to see me and are always waiting at the door. They let me groom them and groom me back. They're all specific little furry people who I adore in my mind.

When I had two rats, i didn't do one on one time and I don't do it now and I feel none the less for it. My rats are trained, some can go outside and be shoulder rats. Some are attention seekers who spend hours crawling on you and others want to do their own thing; others yet are shy sweeties who will groom but don't want anyone but me to groom back.

These dynamics occur in normal mischiefs and my big one is no different. The shifts of power, the rat to rat dynamic is something completely different but my love for rats and theirs to me isn't.

It makes me so mad because...what do you know? You don't know my rats. Me. My situation. I didn't chose twelve rats. I love them all the same though. And yet, it's nothing for any Joe with a pair of rats to say well twelve rats is too many you can't bond with that many. Does tht mean I can have only two friends? Two loves at a time, so mom dad and not sister or brother?

End rant.
 

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n it's nothing for any Joe with a pair of rats to say well twelve rats is too many you can't bond with that many. End rant.[/QUOTE said:
Not to be paranoid, but I didn't say that in the past did I? If I did I didn't mean it, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lol I don't remember - I don't think so!. This isn't meant to attack anyone who did in specific anyway, just the idea that my mischief is somehow inferior to another in virtue of number. Anyone is welcome to the opinion but I challenge it and am willing to post whatever video necessary lol.
 

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I just saw "Joe" and "pair of rats", lol
 

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well I have 6. 5 in one cage and big old Shakespeare in a cage by himself. While Shakespeare does get one on one time the others dont. We free range together. Some run off and explore while some jump on me and try to play dentist. I dont think I could handle 12 rats but thats me. Personally I think people just dont understand it so they cant see the love and affection each one has towards you. To each their own so long as they are fed and have a nice big cage with lots of toys and lots of love from you, I dont see the issue.
 

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Agreed. I didn't plan on having 10, it just kinda worked out that way. Yeah, I could've stopped at a lower number, but I didn't. I love each one of my rats for their unique personalities and while it is a lot of work, especially having different groups that need separate play-times, I don't regret it for a second. If I had a bigger house, more time, and more money I would have twice as many animals as I do now and I don't doubt for a second that I would love them all.
 

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I had 24 at one time in my youth. Everyone was cared for, everyone was loved & got attention. Like you said not one on one.. but I did love them all. Even the scared ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Dusty, I thought that was your name - Dusty! Lol. I meant Joe as a sort of anonymous anybody.

Thanks guys. Nine of my twelve were born to me, two were the original two. I couldn't find worthy safe homes so I kept them all to keep them safe and loved.
 

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No way! I've had everywhere from 2 to 30 rats (including pups that were re-homed) and I can really not tell the difference. All of my rats interact with me and they all get equal treatment. Even when I just had two they never got one on one or anything more than what my 7 get now. I almost feel like they're more interactive with me when I have more; like there being more of them makes the giant person in the room less daunting lol.
 

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I understand where people come from saying that and I agree with them to an extent. I can see how it'd be a lot harder to give all the rats lots of love since, well, there's a lot of them. Only reason for that though is because it'd take a lot of time to play with them all and etc.
 

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It's a little infuriating that people can be so judgmental. We all share a common interest and love on this forum, and we all most likely have differing opinions... and that's okay!
I have nine girls, some would say that's too many, or that I can't care for them like I could if I had only two. That is their opinion, and it does not bother me.
Rats are my passion. I love all of my girls the same and no one is being neglected. It's insulting that people think I would take in more then I can care for.
I, on the other hand, love a big mischief! And I love hearing about all of your rats. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone, it's a fact of life. Don't let them get you down.
 

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I get overwhelmed by just my four sometimes, so with twelve nanashi sometimes I wonder how you do it, however from what I've read from you on the forums, I can tell that you really do love all of them and have a special relationship with each one. It takes a lot to be able to make sure not only the mischief is doing well overall, but to also make sure each individual rat is having his/her needs met. If it weren't for the amount of cage upkeep that comes with it, I would love to have a big mischief!
 

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I understand where people come from saying that and I agree with them to an extent. I can see how it'd be a lot harder to give all the rats lots of love since, well, there's a lot of them. Only reason for that though is because it'd take a lot of time to play with them all and etc.
I agree, though an individual's circumstances will affect it somewhat. Let's say someone has 5,000 rats. Would anyone try to argue that they can give the rats as much attention as someone who has 10 rats? In my mind it's pretty clear they couldn't, that there would be some point at which there are just so many rats that human interaction with rats is less than it would be with fewer rats. I also feel that that is not necessarily a bad thing, with 5,000 rats I'm sure the rats could do a pretty good job at entertaining themselves much more than if there were only 2 rats. So for me, the question isn't whether big mischiefs mean less attention, which I see as true, but rather at what point that happens. Is it better to keep 1 rat instead of 2 because you can give more attention to 1 rat? Pretty sure almost everyone would say no on that one, rats shouldn't be kept alone. And it's not like you're forced to only pay attention to 1 rat at a time, playing with 2 at a time is not twice as hard. 5,000 at a time would be difficult.

So, where does the increase in numbers result in a reduction of human attention? That I believe varies from person to person. How much time the person spends with the rats each day, what kind of environment they have to interact with the rats, how the rats themselves behave, and so on. Someone with a full time job would have less time to spend with rats than someone who is home all day - that kind of thing.

For me, I keep 3-4 rats at a time and feel it's a good number for me. In the past I think I've had as many as 8 or so.
 

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We have 5 and I often feel overwhelmed since one has very special needs - being on his own, having behavioral issues and being very old. I think if we just had the 4 boys in the DCN, it would be a lot easier to manage. I would not give up one on one time personally so I cannot see myself having any more at once than I do now. To me establishing individual connections is really important and I personally find that one on one time can really help with that. That isn't to say someone who isn't doing things exactly as I am is neglecting their rats - just a personal opinion. I like to have the rats out as a group and individually. I feel the dynamics are very different when they are flying solo. I do not know if I feel there is a generic number that defines 'too much' but I know I would not be able to afford it if all 14 or however many of my rats got sick at once as it is too much for me to handle (both financially and emotionally). I envy the people that manage it with so many but I also understand why some eyebrows are raised. We rescued two of my boys from a hoarding house where the guy with 200+ rats thought he was doing just fine and assured us he was giving them all attention and love (quite clearly not the case but it was what he had deluded himself into thinking). Not suggesting that this is you, but simply stating that I understand why it is difficult for some people to imagine making time and money for quite a significant number of rats.
 

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I have 5 rats but only 4 come out for snuggles (1 is messed up. We got her before we knew much about rats and while they said she was 4 weeks old, she couldn't have been much more than 3 and as she grew up, she became less and less interested in people. She'll sit with you for a bit but would much rather be with her cagemate that she is fully bonded to. I don't push her to snuggle, it's very stressful for her but she does like free roam time with the other rats) I love each rat and don't have a favorite overall but a favorite for different things. Tilly is great in cars and probably the best snuggler, Alice is better for coming out in public and likes to wander and explore the world of your lap or shoulder, Snozz is an okay cuddler but is very playful and is the best one to take out side or play with, Cinders is a good one to snuggle, not as good as Tilly, but better than Alice and Snozz. Minnie is Minnie. We just let her do her own thing and she is very happy with that, she is cautious, but loves treats. She hardly ever scuffles with Cinders and won't fight if Cinders takes her treat, although that almost never happens, she hates change and only likes her wire wheel, rearrange the cage is fairly stressful for her. She still loves the plastic doll house thing that she's had since we got her over a year ago. I feel that I could give 6 or 7 rats the attention they need and deserve but not much more than that. I would love to have 10, 12, 15 rats but I don't think it would be very fair to them. If you can honestly think that you can give enough attention to each rat, that's great but with jobs, other pets, school, etc. I think it's beyond a lot of people, but certainly not all or even most.
 

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I have four, soon to be five and I do have to admit that I don't feel the same connection with them than I did my Lilly BUT I love each and every one of them. I love them more than anything and they love me and I will stop at NOTHING to keep them happy, healthy and loved. I had a very very strong bond with Lilly. She was my everything. Before her I had shut out both animals and people. I was (more) antisocial and I was just apathetic about everything but mostly I was apathetic about animals. As a child I was abused, as a teen I was still abused and it caused me to just shut out any and everything that could bring love and happiness because I didn't want it wrenched away from me and break my heart all over again. But then I moved away and slowly, with the help of my husband and medication, my heart thawed. When I got Lilly I didn't think that I'd like her. This little brown thing that my husband and Jasper picked out. But boy was I wrong. She has sass and spunk and told me exactly what she thought and what she wanted. She thawed my heart out faster than any blowtorch could. And I miss her terribly. So much so that I can't talk about her or think about her without breaking down.

I love her kids and her grandbabies. They're honest to gods my children. I don't want human children. My girls are enough.

So even though I don't have the same connection with my remaining four as I did with Lilly, I do still have a strong bond with them all.
 

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I read once that a human cannot have more than six hundred complex human relationships at a time. The brain just can't handle more than that many complex relationships at a time.
Considering that, adding in rats to the equation, most of us have several hundred more we could add before we "Just can't bond with" any more rats/people.
 
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