Rat Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Another christmas crisis! GAH!!!! Will it ever stop?

So, I've just taken Daphne for her free range time in the bathroom - and noticed that her eye is bleeding inside the eyeball!

A little history - she's always been prone to eye infections etc. Over the weekend both of her eyes swelled up (her eyelids should I say) and there was quite a lot of porphyrin build up. SO, I took her to the vets yesterday who said it's probably an allergic reaction and gave me some anti-inflammatory eyedrops to use once daily. I put one drop in both eyes (although she was struggling so much I'm not sure it actually got the eye - I was going to give her a proper drop tonight when she hasn't been wound up by the vets).

Today, one eye is absolutely fine - the swelling has gone down completely. But, the other one, like I say, has bled inside the eyeball! There's no evidence that she's been in a fight and the eyeball has been scratched (she's got no scratches on her body, only one bite on her back leg which is probably from rough housing with El Meano Max. There are no scratches what so ever near her eye - as you can see below). She's not paying any attention to it and does respond to movement on both sides - so I don't think she's blinded by it (or at least I hope not)

What do you think it can be? I've never seen anything like this.

Also - there's no discharge at all. I've taken as good-a pics as I possibly can.











And I know you can't see it very well so I've done this rough paint sketch of what the eyeball looks like. As you can see, it's cloudy and there is blood and some yellowish liquid - could it be infection?



Yeah, ok. I'm no Monet.

She finished a course of Baytril yesterday - I'm considering putting her back on it, just in case. What do you think?

Edit - I've not given her her eyedrops tonight, in case they're the problem (I doubt it though) - I'll be taking her to the vet tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
730 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

I've never seen anything like that before.... You should get her to the vet ASAP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

She'll be at the vets first thing after work tomorrow.

It's got me completely baffled!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Something like that happened to my coworker at my last job... No, my coworker was not a rat, sadly. XD;

But it turned out to be a popped blood vessel. :?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,641 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

I have seen bleeding within the ocular bulb twice.

The 2nd one was with a girl with PT. The vessels are bleeding into the eye.
She's normally a dark-eyed ruby.



The first boy had serious eye issues and it resolved on its own, although he ended up blind.



Did the ointment have a steroid in it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,479 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

i dont know, it could have been a popped vessell like said above, or like you vet said an allergy

this is off topic, but look at the length of that boys nails o_O ^
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Lilspaz, I didn't know if the ointment has a steroid. It's called Maxitrol, and I think that it does;

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001586.html

Does that change anything? I don't even think she got the night before's drop, if I'm completely honest. She was wriggling up a storm as she was over excited by her vet visit, so after a couple of mis-tries I gave up and decided to start her course yesterday. Needless to say, I haven't done that. o_O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,641 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Hmm...if she had a minute corneal injury...I remember this from Bella's eye injury

*Note: ophthalmic corticosteroids are also not recommended as they have a tendency to promote fungal growth.

Maxitrol has dexamethasone, a corticosteroid, in it.

the problems showed up when you used it. I would stop using it and if you are worried, get a human grade eye ointment (no steroid) and use that to keep the eye moist. Lasts much longer than drops and is what I used on Sebastian of the Long Nails. Poor bugger. He had so many stresses in his life at the time I ignored those nails...

This I found for humans...

b) Ulcerative keratitis
• Corneal ulceration causes pain with photophobia
• Hypopyon implies bacterial infection and is serious
• Vesicles in the ophthalmic division of the trigeminal nerve indicate herpetic infection
• A dendritic branching corneal ulcer is suggestive of herpes simplex infection
• If this is misdiagnosed and steroid eye drops are administered it can exacerbate the
condition

• All corneal ulcers should be referred to the ophthalmologists as corneal scarring is a real
danger
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Well, she's been to the vets and he's ruled out scratches. He seems to believe it's hyphema, aka bleeding caused by trauma to the eye. He thinks she may have banged her eye, or something similar. I'm not sure how that would happen - she's usually the last in an argument and VERY careful around the cage.

She's been given a Baytril and Dex injection for possible infection and the inflammation. I asked about the eye drops and he said to use them twice for 2-3 days and then once pd thereafter for a week. She's also been prescribed a weeks course of Baytril - as a preventative measure.

He thinks that she'll go back to normal soon. I will keep a close eye on it (no pun intended) and monitor her closely
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Ok. So I need to pick some brains again.

I've just checked her eye and it's looking BAD. There's now not so much red as yellow, and an area of the yellow is starting to distend outwards. I'm fairly certain it's pus. Around her eye has started to swell again soon (something which these eyedrops has stopped until now)

Now, I know that these eyedrops are not to be used with ulcers and abraisions to the eyeballs i.e scratches. Does this classify as that? So I shoud stop the drops?

I've got an eye wash (containing 'natural plant extracts) that I normally use to wash out eyes that get crusty with porphyrin. Should I use that instead?

The reason I'm asking you guys and not the vets, is because my vet practice has now closed for the christmas period (or until 27th December) and although I've tried calling the emergency vet, they are REFUSING to even speak to me until my practice officially closes - which is at 5pm. My vet practice is closed - the phones say so, so I can't call them. But this stupid receptionist at the emergency hospital says she won't help until it officially gets turned over to them. B****!

Edit - I've reviewed the site again

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001586.html

and the leaflet from the bottle, and I've decided (I think) that as pus is probably involved I've got to stop using it. I'll give her the saline solution (unless someone can reccommend better, and I'll get that tomorrow)

Should I also start her on doxy as well as the baytril she's already getting?

Other than that, I'll just have to wait it out :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Well, usually these particular drops are very good at clearing up excessive porphyrin discharge, general swollen eyes and eye infections.

Thanks for those pics, I'm looking at them and I hope Daphne isn't going the same way - I can imagine her getting to this in a few days



I took some pics as well, for reference.









And this is a close up of the last one - if she opens her eyes properly there's a small discoloured patch within the yellow bit - it looks a different texture to the rest of the eye - which is why I think it's starting to push outwards.



The thing is that the vet did check her eye - and there were no scratches or damage to it at all. He said he hoped it wasn't an infection - but looking at it - it's hard no to think that it is!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,641 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

It almost looks like a luxated lens but I am sure your vet would've recognized that. 8O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

I would hope so.

I recalled the emergency vet and they refused to give me any advise because they need to see her first and for that I have to pay £60-£70 out of hours consultation charge - BUT they refuse to see her because she's not an emergency. How ridiculous is that?

I'll be going to the pharmacy tomorrow (or my mum will) what type of eye ointment would you suggest I use? (if any)? I'm completely ignorant when it comes to anything to do with eyes (ironically - I have an eye phobia o_O Daphne's not helping!)

Edit - I managed to get some better pics





I saw some pics when researching hyphema of a eye filling with pus - it was in a human eye but I'm assuming that that's possible with rats too - I can't imagine regular eye discharge being greeny/yellow? It's also now started to discharge (what I hope) is porphyrin.

What IS it with christmas this year!?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

That sort of looks like how Dotty's eye went - Her's started to bludge out and it was nasty.
My vet reckoned that it was from a scratch or something, but to be honest I hadn't really heard my girls fighting (and this was back in the day's when I'd first got them and any little noise would wake me, lol). But I noticed that Dotty's eye went like it did when she was giving birth (Stress maybe...?)

Anyway to the point, the vet gave me some stuff to put in her water to kill the infection and make the swelling go down, then gave me some eye cream - which I think I still have - to put on her eye twice a day. Eventually it went better and she didn't have to have an operation to remove the eye - which was a suggestion - and now her eye has sort of "crusted" over and altho she can't see out of it, is perfectly healthy.

I hope you manage to get Daphne sorted out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Well, I've just gone to clean her eye out with some saline, the first drop went in and her eye just spurted out with blood. TONS of blood!

I called the emergency vet asap who say her eyeball may have burst and I should take her in. (For a £75 charge of course)

Although it's stopped bleeding now and the eye looks reasonably intact, I'm going to take her in in about an hour or so, to see what they think.

It's not very encouraging that they've told me they don't usually treat small animals - especially rodents - and that it's a cat and dog hospital! Unfortunately, this is the only emergency vet open over christmas. Hopefully I'll be able to get them to hold off on surgery for now - or at least until the 27th when I can go to MY vet who are set up for small animal surgery - if she needs her eye removing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,641 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Ration, don't bother taking her in. You will need to put pressure on/near the eye to stop the bleeding. I would take her in if it was something they could stitch up, for oxygen, fluids for dehydration, or if you think she needs to be euthanized. Is it still bleeding? Btw, Bellas eye had burst and she is doing pretty good now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

The bleeding stopped - but we took her in just to find out the situation. They put her under the gas, checked the eye out and told me that it has ruptured (that's what all the yellow stuff was - the inside of her eye?!) They wanted to remove it straight away but I put my foot down and said I would wait (as I KNOW there have been rats like your Bella in similar situations that have got through this - no rush) unless it becomes an absolute emergency.

They said to continue with the Baytril (I mentioned Doxy - as it's secreted through their tears - and she checked and said it's not suitable for use in rodents. Yeah - so someone forgot to memo her in when THAT rule was changed) so I'm wondering if I should switch her TO Doxy - or add that to the Baytril?

Also, I asked about the antibiotic drops (I got some containing Chloramphenicol) and she said not to use them because it'll hurt her too much and because the eyeball is ruptured. What do you think about it? Should I try them anyway? There is a STRONG smell coming from her eye - which I would associate with infection.

I think regardless - her eye will be removed unless a miracle happens and I can prove that it won't be necessary.

Oh yeah, and they refused to give me pain meds to take home - told me that as the otc pain meds I use isn't licenced I shouldn't use it (although it's been ok'd by my vet) and instead gave her an 'opium based pain killer' aka morphine - or something very similar too. She's been knocked out completely bless her. I think it's complete over kill - but they're the money rollers - I mean vets - so they MUST know best right? >.<

Sorry - feeling quite annoyed right now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,755 Posts
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

i would say. geeze i hate vets like that. if they don't treat rodents they shouldn't pretend to know what they are doing, they should go LOOK IT UP! i've made vets do that a few times. i don't think they were impressed with me but they did look it up and completely changed what they suggested i do.

i'm sorry you're having so much trouble with your babies right now but they are in the right hands to get the best care they possibly could. i hope your ratty is feeling better soon. and if she does have to lose her eye, its no big deal, she'll just have a permawink! :D she won't miss it any either, not with their natural eyesight
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Re: Bleeding INSIDE the eyeball?

Unluckily, it's a training hospital. They prize themselves on having the best equiptment, being on TV all the time, treating all the big animals like horses on the hospital grounds and lending vets to all the big zoos - but they can't look at a rat without seeing black and white. If ANYTHING they should know that small animal care is NOT black and white because there is so little treatment infomation available! If they knew their stuff (like many whethered vets) they would know how to read between the lines and appreciate that many common cat/dog/human medicines work just as well on rats! But they seem to seriously neglect this fact (especially at this place) for fear of doing something 'wrong'.

Saying that, the last time I went I got a really nice senior resident (the lady today was an intern) and he actually LISTENED to the treatment regime I believed was needed (for example Doxy, and this Ibuprofen for pain meds) and although he checked and came back saying that it's not licensed for use - he understood that it can/has been used commonly by many people!

Poor Daffers doesn't seem worried by it at all, I gave her an hours down time in Katie's old cage (Katie doesn't use a cage any more, she can't run anywhere!) and then put her back with Ivy, Max and Lou. She seems to be getting around fine - there's no excessive cleaning and she's not paying much attention to it. She is very quiet though - but I'm attributing that to the **** nuke-meds that they gave her.

And thank you for the permawink comment, lol. That really cheered me up.

Edit - Daphne's feeling fine - she just wrestled a chocolate drop out of Lou's mouth (Lou is twice her size, at least). lol
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top