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i'm on F3 cross on petstore lineage and none of them has had breathing issues at all. just wating for the F4 to become old enough.to breed them. does anyone know how to get a male interested in breeding? because this male i have from my first cross doesn't want to and he ignores the females. oh BTW i am inbreeding them and no problems have occured thus far in the F4.

"Inbreeding is defined by Merriam-Webster as:
1: the interbreeding of closely related individuals especially to preserve and fix desirable characters of and to eliminate unfavorable characters from a stock
Inbreeding is used extensively in the breeding of many species and can be used either to set a positive trait or identify a potentially negative trait depending upon the choices made.
When two unknown rats, or even rats from different known lines, are brought together for a breeding the offspring may all appear to be robust and free of any unwanted genetic issues.

Test breeding the siblings and/or breeding an offspring back to the parent can help to identify undesirable traits by doubling up on the reccesives of the two different parents.

It is said, by some, that test breeding can create offspring with genetic issues. This is true at times, and yet it is important that this be done so that the health and viability of the new line can be evaluated and possibly discontinued if there are problems.
Without multiple close test breeding negative recessive traits are swept under the rug and may be perpetuated indefinitely only to resurface later in a much larger gene pool."

"In laboratories a line is not even considered inbreed until the 20th generation. Inbred lab strains are often achieved by breeding brother to sister in each generation."

also if anyone needs help as far as genetics go or anything to do with breeding i can help also.
 

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Why are you bothering with petstore rats when there are some wonderful lines out there already established, so you don't have to go thru your test breeding.
You may not have respiratory issues, but what are these rats finally passing of? Have any died yet? What age are they going?
 

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The problem with breeding rats with an entirely unknown genetic history, is that you pretty much have to keep several generations until they die, simply to identify any problems in their line. So it'll be another year or 2 years before you'd ever really begin to know if there are any problems.

Your best bet, if you really want to invest in making a new line, which may never work out and years of work be wasted, is to not breed them when they are immediately able to breed. Wait until they are getting around 9 months or so and breed then, so you aren't breeding as many litters. They'll all be older and you'll have fewer to take care of in the long run and it'll help you figure out if there are any genetic problems.

I would invest in good breeding stock from a reputable breeder. That way part of the work is already done and you are less likely to end up with serious problems in the line.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
well i live in Indiana and there's not that many breeders around here. also the only one that has died actually put to sleep because the cat got a hold of her and bit her bad. cost was $40 but i would have rather put her to sleep then watch her suffer. also father is still here no problems. 1 baby had a mamiary tumor and got that removed. but i have given away 10 rats to friends. and as far as test breeding goes fine with me. i would even test breed pedigreed rats as well. i mean nobody can truely say that their lines are clean eitheir.

edit i have been trying to contact breeders to see if they would give me some for breeding and thats been 2 weeks ago. i would love to breed siamese rats but no breeders around that are willing to sell some that aren't just pets.
 

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What might help you with the breeders if asking one of them to mentor you. And no, a breeder can't say that any line is entirely clean, but many times they are lines the breeder has worked very hard on and been very selective about what genes they introduce. Some lines have existed for many years. Others are the combination of two very old lines that were bred into another. It is just best to get the oldest lines possible because you are less likely to run into any problems. They are many more generations removed from their 'petstore' relatives.

Keep contacting the breeders and see what you can arrange. They might be afraid you'll be breeding their rats with petstore rats. Many breeders specifically request that you only breed their rats with their permission and usually with a doe or buck they have approved. Talk to them about it, ask why they wouldn't adopt out a rat for breeding to you and see if you can resolve their fears.
 

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You might want to go to Ohio. I live in Indiana as well and havn't been able to contact ANY breeders around here. No one answers my e-mails D: It truely sucks.

But if you have the money, time and know what you are doing I'm all for a new breeder being established in Indiana. It sounds complicated and dangerous though D: I hope you can find an established line.
 

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I didnt realsie it was so complicated-i was just going to borrow a male from someone i meet online for a dirty weekend if i wanted to get my girls pregnant!
 

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I would definately recommend some of the ratteries in OH. I do not yet own any of them, but I have spoken in length to many of the people that run them and seen many people's posts about getting babies and I've never seen anyone be disappointed. If you'd like a nudge towards the right ones, just let me know.
 

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Absolute Mischief Rats is fantastic, and RaffinHouse Rattery has a really great reputation.
 

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3 words on breeding petstore rats: Don't try it.
 

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XD Nice.
 

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Not good breeders. They come from people who breed pet store stock rats. Most rats are inbred with subpar genetics. No accredited, ethical breeder would ever sell to pet stores.
 

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A good reputable breeder is someone who breeds for health and temperment before looks. And they breed selectively, not for quantity. In most, if not all cases, their breeding stock is their beloved pets and their lines are ones they have worked on extensively to make sure they are problem free as possible.

They look into the quality of each line they work with and their health and temperment before they breed. And they find homes for their rats, instead of selling them to someone who will try to place them. And they usually limit their number of litters so they have time to socialize everyone and only breed when they have enough room to house them and homes for the babies. They are kept in the best of conditions, as far as cages, food, toys, and lifestyle. They breed because they love the animals, knowing that they'll never make a profit. They want to provide a high quality companion.

With petstores and their breeders, they are rarely the pets of the breeder and are often just the bred for the profit of the sale. It is common knowledge that you are likely to get a more 'well-rounded' puppy from a private owner or small scale breeder than you would from a petstore or large scale breeder. They are often doing it soley for profit, instead of love for the animal and the animals have minimal living conditions. That often being only that which is required for them to live.

They don't care much about the quality of the companion, but the money they'll make from selling it. Usually with them, as long as the dog is fertile and of full stock, for example, they'll breed it. Personality doesn't usually come into play.

I see this all the time at work. A woman who breeds English Bulls. She found one abandoned on the side of the road, tied up to a guard rail. She bred her with one of her males and one of the babies was born missing one eye and with facial deformity. Another has hip problems. And some of the pups later got parvo because of faulty vaccinations. Yet she still continues to breed that female despite the problems with some of the pups. Simply because she can still make a profit by doing so. She actually joked about one who came in with parvo (and who is also the one missing an eye) She intends to breed her to 'make up' for the cost of the parvo treatment.

I'm sure you've heard all the talk about puppy mills. Well- breeders who breed for petstores are just that. That is where most petstores, especially the large chains, get their puppies. My local PetLand for example, gets puppy mill puppies for the most part. And they are often amaciated and ill when they arrive because of the horrible conditions at the breeder's location.

They are horrible and very callous when it comes to their animals. They keep them in the tiniest of cages, don't feed them properly, and often don't bother to socialize those they will use as breeding stock. And mills aren't confined to just puppies. They involve cats, rats, hamsters, any animal you can find for sale at a petstore.
 

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Its so complicated im over whelmed! Ive never thought were the animals in pet shops come from-sound like they'd be better off in a lab. Im going to watch what kinda place i shop. I can see ive got alot to learn. So even if my girls continue to develop well and i find a quality male to do the buisness i shouldent? I was thinking of adopting next time so maybe a few well chosen guys?
 

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Don't breed rats, period. Especially pet store or rescue rats.
 

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If you want babies, contact rescues in your area and see if you can foster a litter. Again, only breeders with pedigreed rats should be breeding. Considering the fact that you've very much a newbie it seems, you shouldn't be thinking about breeding at all.
 

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i get the impression its a full time job! my brain is scrambled with strains and varieties and diets! Do pregnant does ever need fostering or adoption?
 
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