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I ran a wild animal rehab for 15 years...does that count? I still work with DNR and wild life officials in my state on a regular basis and am an avid outdoors-man. Releasing her is the humane, ethical thing to do. After you caught her initially, you should have just shored up your workshop to limit her access and put her back out in nature. You took a thriving, healthy animal out of the local ecosystem (and quite possibly killed an entire litter). There is a reason removing wild animals is illegal in most states. I don't necessarily care if I come off as rude, and I'm slightly mortified anyone would support the removal of a healthy animal from the wild. This isn't a situation were the animal was in danger or it was abandoned. This is an adult now keeping a wild animal in a little cage, just like little kids try to do with bugs. That's not something to support, or even offer advice on, short of screaming RELEASE IT.
You make a really good point, but being on the "owning a wild rat" side. I didn't take the advice of people who "didn't care if they came off rude or not." I actually just fought with them. It wasn't very "helpful."This is a pet forum so pets come first, I get that. But OP seems to have his mind made up, just like I did. Nothing else really to be said about the topic. So at this point, we can either help him make the rats first better, or ignore the topic. Yelling at him to release the rat won't do much good. I am sorry though. I can understand your point and how you feel about this topic.
 
Gotchea, your situation was completely different. Wilder was in need of assistance when you found him. The woodrat however, was clearly doing great in her environment. It also didn't matter that you kept wilder because he, being an invasive species, is not welcomed in our ecosystems and probably would have been killed by any wildlife rehabilitator you gave him to.
 
You make a really good point, but being on the "owning a wild rat" side. I didn't take the advice of people who "didn't care if they came off rude or not." I actually just fought with them. It wasn't very "helpful."This is a pet forum so pets come first, I get that. But OP seems to have his mind made up, just like I did. Nothing else really to be said about the topic. So at this point, we can either help him make the rats first better, or ignore the topic. Yelling at him to release the rat won't do much good. I am sorry though. I can understand your point and how you feel about this topic.
You rescued an invasive species that was in need. That's a HUGE difference.
 
The wildlife center would just release her because she's healthy and there is nothing preventing her from being successful in her environment.
 
The wildlife center would just release her because she's healthy and there is nothing preventing her from being successful in her environment.
hopefully in a safer area though. Op didn't want to release her because the area by his house is dangerous?
 
It's the wild. It is full of danger, especially for a small animal like the woodrat. But she actually most likely came from that area or a similar area. I doubt she grew up in his woodshop, it's not the only world she has ever known. She just found a nice place to have her babies.
 
From a kind of outsiders point of view this has all got WAY out of hand. This guy had a choice, the rat was persistently invading his workshop and causing trouble. So he either killed it, or caught it. I could never kill any animal big or small unless it was truly suffering. He caught this animal, and obviously became slightly attached...probably because it took so many attempts! So now he wants to try and do what's best for it, if you think that's to release it back into the wild. Then that's brilliant you've made your point so you can stop repeating yourself. If he chooses to keep Rita and give her the best life possible then we should try and help. It's called the rat forum, people come here for guidance and support if you don't agree with what they're doing then move onto another thread. Our fancy rat pets originate from wild animals lets not forget, so if someone sometime somewhere hadn't decided to 'keep' some, then we would not have them in our homes today.
 
From a kind of outsiders point of view this has all got WAY out of hand. This guy had a choice, the rat was persistently invading his workshop and causing trouble. So he either killed it, or caught it. I could never kill any animal big or small unless it was truly suffering. He caught this animal, and obviously became slightly attached...probably because it took so many attempts! So now he wants to try and do what's best for it, if you think that's to release it back into the wild. Then that's brilliant you've made your point so you can stop repeating yourself. If he chooses to keep Rita and give her the best life possible then we should try and help. It's called the rat forum, people come here for guidance and support if you don't agree with what they're doing then move onto another thread. Our fancy rat pets originate from wild animals lets not forget, so if someone sometime somewhere hadn't decided to 'keep' some, then we would not have them in our homes today.
I agree !
 
So how is the fuzz ball now? ;)
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
I ran a wild animal rehab for 15 years...does that count?
Ever made any of those wild animals happy in captivity? Then no, it doesn't.

After you caught her initially, you should have just shored up your workshop to limit her access and put her back out in nature. You took a thriving, healthy animal out of the local ecosystem (and quite possibly killed an entire litter)
I should have just shored it up like it was a simple matter of shutting a door or closing a window? Ever spent any of your outdoor time in a non-ventilated box during the summer? Just a few minutes of that kind of experience is all you'd need to understand that sealing off my shop's natural ventilation would be pretty daft. Even if I were inclined to do so, though, it would be a major construction endeavor requiring lots of money, time, and help, and after finishing THAT project, the next step would be to do the same to my house. The "local ecosystem" I took her out of was from inside my shop. Let me reiterate something in the original post: this rat escaped nine times, usually whenever I was transferring her from trap to cage, or from temporary cage to better cage, but I've caught her ten times, and all ten times, she was caught inside my shop.

This isn't a situation were the animal was in danger or it was abandoned. This is an adult now keeping a wild animal in a little cage, just like little kids try to do with bugs. That's not something to support, or even offer advice on, short of screaming RELEASE IT.
Not a good parallel here. My next-door neighbor is an avid hunter, and "graciously" offered to shoot her when I told him I wasn't sure what to do with her. This is a rural area, and target practice isn't illegal here. I really didn't WANT to keep her and take on the responsibility, but I didn't want to dump her and have that on my conscience, either. A prey animal is ALWAYS in danger...except this one, because nothing can hurt her now.

She groomed my hand today. It was different than when she licks a finger free of vegetable juice; I could feel her teeth contact my skin like four times a second, for almost a minute, while she used her two front paws to manipulate. I took this as a positive sign.
 
Many years ago there was a debate on another forum on a different topic that raged for several years, so my friend and I went to some of the top experts in the field, each with many years of expertise and finally we talked to one fellow who commented that what made the debate so difficult to resolve was that both opposing methods worked just about equally as well. In other words the debate was essentially between two right answers... and therefore it wasn't one that either side was ever going to win or lose. In cases where one method did work better than the other, it was due to better implementation and execution not because of better theory.

So the OP sets Rita free and an owl swoops down and eats her tomorrow... Would anyone really count this as a win for wildlife? Sure if you're really into owls it might be... But it's not really the best outcome for Rita. Nor is a life trapped in a cage the best life for Rita, but it might be better than being eaten by an owl... at least marginally...

There's no absolute right answer and no absolute wrong answer here. Every pet rat we own is the distant relative of a wild animal. If the first rats weren't taken from the wild none of us would own rats. That said, I think everyone was right in sharing their opinion and arguing their point of view. Just that I don't believe that it's a point that can ever be completely resolved. One might even argue that if a few more dodo birds or passenger pigeons had been taken into captivity those species may not be extinct now.

Honestly, I don't know how the wood rat would do as a companion species. It's worked a treat for dogs and it's worked pretty well for our rats and Wilder proved that black rats can flourish among human friends. We're not talking about caging a wild Bengal tiger here.

Now the heading on this thread is regarding domesticating a wild adult rat. More specifically a wild adult wood rat not just caging it. Assuming that the OP is serious about domesticating Rita, I think he can provide an interesting life for her as a companion animal rather than just a cage animal, that would be a challenging and interesting pursuit. And we would all stand to learn a whole lot about Rita in the process. I for one, would be very interested to know if wood rats can befriend humans and how they would do as human companions.

Sure the OP might get bitten, and there are some health risks the OP has to assume, but there's a real up side to both Rita and the OP if they can build a relationship.

Given the choice between setting Rita free or locking her in a cage for the rest of her life, I think I would opt for setting her free, but given the third choice of actually socializing her and giving her a full life as a companion animal like a domestic rat or a dog, then this becomes an experiment I could support, at least up to the point it doesn't work out.

If gotchea had locked wilder in a cage and never let him out, I think she would have been very wrong, regardless of rescuing him as a pup. I think it's wrong for folks to lock domestic rats in a cage their whole lives. But I do believe that rats and humans can bond and share better and more interesting lives together than they often can lead apart.

So folks, it's fine to debate the merits of your beliefs, but don't get hostile... Always keep in mind that there can be two or even multiple right answers. And there may even be certain right answers are are only right in certain situations or right because they are marginally better than other answers. Some right answers are even case specific to a particular rat and particular owner... All of our grand theories aside we can beat the daylights out of each other and all be wrong. Rita might be alive today because last night some owl went hungry.

So, if the OP wants to lock Rita into a cage for the rest of her life or let her go, I'm out right here... If he's crazy enough to try and socialize her into a mutually rewarding domestic lifestyle, I'm willing to play along. I'm not pretending to be right or wrong or more right than anyone else.

As some of your folks know, my interest and specialty is in rat bonding, socialization and behavior. I've learned from my mistakes and successes with a part wild rat and domestic rats and observations of wild rats. I'm prone to look at this as a fantastic learning experience. And as crazy as it might sound, this could turn out great for both Rita and the OP. But until someone actually tries it we'll never know....

So to the OP, take a look at my immersion thread at the top of the behavior section, consider armoring up so you don't get bitten and give it some thought. If you can build a real relationship with Rita the two of you might just have a real future together. Lots of wild brown rats have lived fun and rewarding lives with human families and so have some black rats... Can wood rats become house pets and live in domestic bliss or can you socialize an adult wood rat? Can immersion even work with wood rats? To be honest, I don't think anyone knows for sure... I suppose, I could even argue against wood rats becoming bonded to humans as they are more of a solitary species, but until someone tries it, we will never know.

Best luck to you and Rita whatever you decide to do.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
Rat Daddy, I read your immersion posts...that is exactly the sort of education I was hoping to find when I came to these forums. I've spent many hours learning as much as I could find about rats in general and Eastern woodrats in particular, and there is little to no information to be found on woodrats in captivity that weren't put there strictly for the sake of research.

One thing I did find interesting is that one of those captive woodrats lived for 8 years and 7 months.

My experience with Rita has taken a sharp turn. She just had two babies. All three are fine. Those babies are very red, but well-furred across the back and head. It's difficult to read a rodent's expression, so I'm watching her body language. I think she's a little tense, but not fearful. She's still being hand fed with no problems yet, but now my primary concern is whether I need to adjust her diet in a way that will help our newborn ratties.
 
I would assume more protein (nuts, insects, beans), as well as nesting material (fleece?) would be in order.
 
Don't have the time now, but WOW! Egg is also good for protein for mommy Rita:) so amazing that she nibble cleaned you, that's normally a sign that you've been accepted into her family. Will read or write more later:)
 
You've very much nailed it... there's very little behavioral information on wood rats out there when it comes to socializing them or bonding with them... To some degree it's make it up as you go along. What works with brown and black rats might be a good starting point, but certainly not entirely appropriate...

To make things more interesting, being a new Mom, Rita is likely to become more protective and possibly more hostile towards intrusion.... Funny, when I saw Rita moving all the stuff around her cage I kept thinking she looked like she was nesting... And the pups she already had seemed to be too small a litter...

Congrats on being a dad!

I'm thinking she was attracted to the peanut butter, so nuts might be good for her now... maybe not peanut butter, but unsalted nuts in general... In nature, there would have been american chestnuts and acorns around this time of year while the species was evolving... (not horse chestnuts) I'm talking about the roasting kind of chestnut... I don't know if wood rats are seasonal in terms of when they reproduce, but if there's something abundant where you live in the woods, I'm guessing her pregnancy would be timed with that.

Black rats and brown rats are pretty much tropical animals so their breeding cycles aren't tied to the seasons, wood rats however are more temperate, so they may need certain things to help them gestate and nurse found in nature...

If all else fails go with lots of variety. Greens, seeds, nuts, fruits and grains... you can't go too far wrong that way. Rita will pick and choose what she needs. Interestingly enough this also gives you a couple of pups to raise...

For now, I'd suggest monitoring Rita for stress or anxiety, she may like you, but don't bring too many other people around... Wild rats usually don't bond well with more than one or a few humans and still see other humans as a threat. We don't want Rita to neglect her kids because she's freaked out over something you can prevent. I'll assume she's used to your routine, so that shouldn't bother her too much, but don't break things up too much or she may stress out and do something undesirable at least until the pups open their eyes. Once they are eating some solid foods you are going to have to meet them and begin socializing them, by then Rita should be OK with it (hopefully) because socializing wild rats should start as soon as possible... As no one has done this, there's no rule about the right time to introduce yourself to the pups or how Rita will react. You have to play this by ear and watch for her reaction as you go.

Keep in mind, even the best advise you are likely to get is only our best guess, based on theory developed with a completely different species, no one that I know has actually raised a wood rat so careful experimenting is going to be part of the process. I suspect we are all about to learn something about wood rats. Keep us posted.

And again congrats dad!
 
I just have to say this is amazing. And that is the cutest thing I have ever seen! I hope the babies do well! And I didn't see anyone say this but don't feel bad about loosing the first babies you tried to hand raise. We tried with a litter of 13 fancy rat pups who's mom died and it was hard and heart breaking when they died for no obvious reason. We were told when they are that small it's really hard, especially when their eyes havnt even opened, to keep them going. But that's so amazing you tried! Best of luck with her and the new babies!
 
I've been thinking about Rita all day lol. I don't condone keeping wild animals, but clearly you care about her and she seems "different" enough for this to be an exception to the rule... What does her current cage look like now? I wish I was as handy as you haha. Also, I'm curious, are you able to get into the cage? Do you give her food through the bars, or a door? Does she try to escape if/when you open a door? And how do you plan on cleaning up the soiled cage... eventually? I watched the video and WOW, she is beautiful. :3
 
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