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Discussion starter · #82 ·

9-7-14 (First baby day)


9-8-14 (One day old)


9-11-14


9-12-14 (almost 5 days old)

For four days, Rita sat on her kids in the little blue bed on the bottom level. I don't know why she switched nursery locations, but now they're all crammed in the blue hut up top that Rita can barely squeeze her own self into. The babies about the same size as the first two little ones were when my neighbor found them, maybe even a bit bigger. Should we start a pool to see how long she'll keep them there before she decides that being a family of sardines isn't as glamorous as she originally anticipated?
 
Aww thanks for all the pics... I absolutely love the one where Rita is sleeping with her legs outstretched, it's precious. She obviously really likes the blue house ( more private? ) let's hope that they leave before they all get stuck:) Keep posting:)
 
Oddly, I've seen this in mice a few days after giving birth in a next they build with great effort, moms often move their pups to the most cramped space they can find in the cage. I'm thinking they start worrying about the babies crawling away on their own.

There may also be some advantages in nature in moving your nest to tighter quarters before predators find it.

Just a guess...
 
Discussion starter · #85 ·
They'd have had a harder time crawling over the little bed's borders. It's so cramped in that hut, I occasionally see a baby hanging halfway out, little feet just a-kickin'.

Rita can't even get her entire head out in the open. Feeding her is much more difficult now because it's not only difficult for me to maneuver from the cage opening to where I have the hut bolted down, but since she can't lift her head, I have to bring my hand all the way to her until my fingers are almost beneath her nose. This makes me a little nervous because of proximity to the babies...I've had little tails and little feet press against me...but Rita hasn't given me any warning lunges or even indicated that she's nervous. To the contrary, she occasionally takes her sweet time during bites, pausing to groom herself or a wriggling baby before acknowledging whatever tidbit I'm patiently holding for her.

I don't mind it one bit. Grooming and cleaning isn't something she did at all during those first couple of days, so I think its a positive sign.
 
Glad to see someone else take care of a caught wild rat :D

I have a wild albino rat that a friend caught running down the street... somehow...

They make for... very interesting pets. Don't really know if shes fully wild or someones former pet rat, she isn't scared of humans nor was she ever to began with. When I first met her (a day after she was caught) she straight away licked my entire hand. She doesn't like being held though.
 
Discussion starter · #88 ·
Albinism is a mutation that does occur in the wild, but any wild rat unfortunate enough to live with it won't do so for long because white rats are REALLY obvious to predators. And although the sum of my rat knowledge comes solely from a few weeks of reading plus my experience with my own little wild pest, I'm 99% certain that no adult wild rat who has not been tamed would not be afraid of humans. It sounds like your rat is domesticated.
 
Discussion starter · #89 ·
Day 6 - Rita is still keeping the family in that cramped one-room apart-hut. At the rate the babies are growing, she's going to have to relocate back downstairs really soon, before they're too big to fit through the upstairs/downstairs porthole.




It might look like levitation, but this little one is just "hanging out". Couldn't resist. :)




I'm really glad I got these last two. Toward the day's end, Rita tried something new, putting her head against the back wall of the hut, her hindquarters at the front door, and turned to lay mostly on her side so the little ones could easily find a nipple and latch on. This is the first head shot I've been able to snag since the one I got away with on their first full day.



And here they are, both of them content and happy, and it looks like the ears are beginning to unfold. Evey resource I read from said this shouldn't happen yet, it's supposed to happen on the 9th day. Whatever the case, they sound healthy (I love all of their little squeaks!), they are uncoordinated but energetic, and they look beautiful.
 

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AznDonutBoy...

First, being white or even albino is not a fatal handicap for a wild rat. I've seen captive raised snakes for example that only eat white mice and my best fishing lure was a dark green Rebel painted to look like a small pickerel. It worked in both fresh and salt water. Predators are looking for a certain color/shape pattern and white isn't likely what they are expecting to find.
Secondly wild rats tend to burrow and move rapidly from one sheltered location to another as well as using shadows to their full benefit. Thus they wouldn't be exposing their white fur to present a target very often or for very long. I do however believe that the poorer eyesight commonly associated with being albino would be a handicap depending on where the wild rat lives.

This also becomes a point of interest... because when we say wild rat... we aren't talking about giraffes we are talking about rats... Rats don't free range the vast plains of Africa and graze treetops with their long necks or stampede across the open plains like Wildebeest or Zebras. A wild rat might live in a warehouse or under a schoolyard playground or under a McDonalds dumpster or in a landfill... To a wild rat the "wilderness" may not look very wild to us. A white rat in a landfill full of waste paper products may be very well camouflaged and living in a warehouse might present no challenge at all for even a blind rat that learns it's way around be feel and scent and to avoid forklifts. The first albino rat was found in a cemetery... perhaps marble or cement tombstones also being white might have even given the albino an advantage.

Nonlethal genetic mutations occur over the course of centuries or even millennia, I suspect that most of the genes that provide the broad color and pattern palate have been around for a very long time. As they are recessive they aren't often seen in wild populations, but I'm guessing that there were some very rare hooded rats, for example, around long before humans bred for this trait and that they were successful in passing on their genes.

All of that said... I agree that your feral albino was a most likely a domestic rat that was released at one point. Adult wild rats are notoriously difficult to socialize. This isn't because they can't be socialized or that they can't bond with humans. It's just that wild rats tend to defend themselves and have a strong fear response when taken captive. Combined with sharp teeth, speed and agility this usually means the human is going to get really hurt before and during the bonding process.

A few years back, my daughter found a pack of wild rats free ranging in the zoo parking lot, she was 5 years old and wanted another rat, she already smelled like out girl rat and when she went into the shrubs to "catch" herself a friend for her rat, I was astonished to see the wild rats respond very playfully, darting around her feet tempting my daughter to chase them and then dashing off into the bushes and rather than being chased off, more and more rats came out to play... until there were actually so many smallish wild rats darting back and forth that I realized my daughter's chances of actually grabbing one were getting all too good for my liking and I ended the play session... I'm substantially certain that if she actually grabbed one of these wild rats it would have been game over and things would have turned bloody serious instantly. And I'm not sure if she might not have gotten attacked by the pack or just bitten by the one rat she snagged. As a dad, this is one experiment I wasn't up for. It was crazy enough to let a 5 year old chase around with a pack of rats in the first place, even when I'm pretty good understanding rats and they weren't being aggressive.

Nothing is completely certain, but I'm guessing if you grab an adult wild rat that has had no human contact, you are going to get bitten 99.99% of the time. So, if nothing else, I base my opinion on that....

I also believe that most rats still have some latent wild abilities that a stint in nature will bring out so a domestic rat is going to develop it's skills by being outdoors over time. Our Fuzzy Rat could navigate vast distances outdoors. Max learned to find the car after several outings too. This kind of skill simply isn't something indoor rats develop, so I'm not at all surprised that your albino is a very interesting rat. And yes, it might be a recent wild rat back cross, like my part wild rat was. Accidental or even intentional wild x domestic crosses happen and although the vast majority of first generation wild crosses look wild second, third or subsequent generations are likely to look like a domestic rats, but aren't necessarily going to act like domestic rats, hence it was set free or escaped. So if your albino really does act wild, it may be the result of a recent back cross... but if it didn't bite you, I'll bet it has had some human contact before your friend caught it.

The world is full of some very interesting rats!
 
As to the subject thread, the pups do look great and it's really nice that Rita isn't freaking out around you. Every day we add something new to our knowledge-base.

My mom told me stories about her pet squirrel that she hand raised before I was born eventually she set it free to live in the Oak tree in the back yard, but she said it always came into the kitchen for breakfast with her and it would often follow her around the house while she did her chores "like a puppy" until they sold the house and moved. That was about sixty plus years ago... and even before that, squirrels had been kept as pets as the term "squirrel cage fan" obviously comes from somewhere. So I don't doubt that wood rats have been kept as pets by someone before too, but most of the information folks gathered in their homes based on their actual experiences have been lost. The nice part of you actually doing this now and basically live and on line is that we are all learning with you and creating a record of actual fact, not second hand recollections from the son of someone that did something 60 years ago that is no longer with us to fill in the details.

Over the thousands of years of human experience science was done by everyday people. Everyone tried stuff and when it worked we learned and progressed. Now we've relegated research to a few researchers... which I find very sad. I'm thinking if the human race had assigned scientific research to a few research specialists thousands of years ago, we'd still be reading research papers on the potential of creating heat from fire off of sun dried clay tablets.

You are really doing good work here and I remain fascinated with where this will go. A domesticated rat that lives 8 years would most certainly find a good home in my household... As much as I love brown rats my daughter has lost 4 best friends in three years, that's a whole lot of loss for an 8 year old to have already experienced.

Friends who don't object to rats are telling me that this can't be good... and the other day when I brought up rats that live longer, my daughter said that might not be good because she might get too attached... Are 8 year old kids supposed to be worrying about getting too attached to their pets? I don't know the answer... but I'm getting concerned.

I don't know if wood rats can become human companions, and lord knows I like my fancy pens and don't want them wandering off, but I've got an open mind and thanks for sharing your adventures with us. I can't wait until the socialization and bonding phase gets into high gear...

Best luck.
 
Oh man those pics are cute. LOVE the baby feet in the 'levitation' pic. I love reading about the progress:) thanks for all the pics and keeping us updated.

Rat Daddy, my daughter has up to date lost 8 of our own ratties, 1 foster and we raised and had to give 7 babies to their forever homes. She's almost 15, slightly brain damaged and I have also wondered how this affects her. We also lost 2 dogs, a cat and a cockatiel. She remembers every one of her pets and we have a special story book where we write each name in as the pet goes and then read the story again each time. I keep thinking I can't do this anymore but the love and joy far outweighs the loss. She's always ready to get more. She's learned about the life and death from a young age. Heartbreaking at the time...but okay. She kisses them goodbye, then turns her back. Don't know if that helps at all, just wanted you to know I'm also concerned as to how this will impact her in the long run...and so you're not alone in those thoughts. Growing up with cats myself though and always loving animals in general I personally feel it's very important for children to have and love pets. Not the spoilt kids who ask for pets and then lose interest in two weeks but the genuine love for animals and how much we can learn from them.

That's also why I'm loving learning step by step with/ from Kucero about Rita. We can learn so much.
 
Discussion starter · #95 ·
Figuring Rita knows what she needs for her nursing diet, I tried a lot of different foods to see what she refused, what she ate, and what she ate a lot of. I'll typically give her several choices, going from what she prefers less of and ending with "dessert"...usually peanut butter, or an occasional milk chocolate chip. I know that a high protein diet is bad for a rat's kidneys, but nursing mothers do need extra protein and calories.

She starts out with a fresh slice or piece of something, like raw green bean, baby carrot (which I peel first), potato (no skin), apple, etc. When she's had enough, she either refuses the next one I offer her, or tosses the remainder of what she had started eating outside of her hut or nest. At that point, I offer something from the next tier; banana, canned green bean, whole grain sweet corn, and the like. After she's eaten her fill of that, I offer peanut or cashew butter or a small piece of milk chocolate. Since they also eat insects, I sometimes give her a cricket (not wild) or two, and she has access to all the uncooked Basmati rice or uncooked oats that she wants.

I purchased a 3-pound bag of Oxbow's Regal Rat, but she wouldn't touch it at first. Last week, I finally got her to try one chip. Today, she ate two of them. Only 2.999 pounds to go...

Toward the beginning, when I was first feeding her by hand, she would turn away from me when she was full. As time progressed and she began approaching me to get fed, the meal would end when she would take whatever was offered, eat part of it, and discard the rest. Since having the babies, if she doesn't want something, she will still take it, but drop it immediately ("No thanks. Next, please.") and that lets me know it's time to move to the next tier. This worked until I realized that the crafty little vermin has learned to ditch the first two "courses" in anticipation of having dessert. She didn't do this at EVERY meal, but it happened often enough that I had to teach her a new concept: no dessert until after you've eaten something nutritious.

This makes me wonder how much of her natural instinct to eat what she needs has been nudged aside by her taste for new and yummy treats she had not known before. Are there any thoughts on this behavior, or suggestions about anything I should be doing differently?
 
Discussion starter · #96 ·
More baby pics


If not for the chewed-up blue plastic, this pic would be good enough for Hallmark.


As the babies have grown, I've been seeing this kind of thing with increasing frequency. Overflowing ratties.

More to come...I've reached the maximum data allowed for a single post.
 
Discussion starter · #98 ·
I can't post any more pics, 'cause I've reached my maximum quota. I'm not sure if that means I'm at my limit for the day, or if we're allowed only so much for an entire thread.
 
I've been following but haven't said anything thus far.
Babies are so cute!!

I just wanted to chime in because I've had the same problem with the images and the app. I can no longer directly upload photos because of the quota. But you can upload to a outside site and post the embed codes. It's an extra step and kind of annoying but it works. Unless someone else has a better idea/method. Good luck!
Looking forward to reading more about your story with Rita and pups. And seeing more pictures :)
 
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