[shieldmaiden44]

It's been 2 hours. She has not gone back to the nest. We just snuck in quietly to have a look.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

maybe she is just waiting until it gets dark to maybe move them

 

[shieldmaiden44]

thank goodness, she is back with her babies. she has built fort knox around them 😂 She also managed to get in with her friends again 😨 We had to build a new fort knox to try and keep her in where she is. they are smart creatures.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

I understand why the lady said it's vital to check that there are no stillborn babies in there, but I do not think that this was good advice at all. I've had an afternoon from ****, i should probably not worry so much but as i said, i feel very protective over the little worms, and to think... better not think about that.

Shreddie made me laugh just now, i gave her some loo roll and she dragged teh whole thing to the nest to build it up a bit more 😂 looked very funny.

I think i'll go to bed and start again tomorrow.

 

[KeithB]

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a rough afternoon, but thankfully it sounds like the drama is over. Three babies is a manageable number - at least you won't have to find homes for 20! Once you are able to sex them you will know what you are dealing with. Also, although understandably you may not be keen on going near the babies again after this experience, Shreddie is now aware that you have interacted with the babies and that no harm came to them, so hopefully things may be easier next time. It is desirable to handle the babies regularly to get them used to it, even though mum may disapprove. However this is an issue on which you really do need the advice of someone who has breeding experience.

Maybe when you do handle them you could take a picture of each of their underparts - if the pictures are clear enough it should be possible to sex them at any age.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

that's what i thought 😂 She is definitely back, and 3 is fine, i won't go near them now for a while, that was more than i could handle. My thoughts are that it's probably fine when a rat mama is used to your smell, then at least you are not a threat, and your smell being on the nest isn't - but of course shreddie is virtually unhandled, so it's different.

I don't think I really can go there again - the problem is that in order to see anything i'd have to move the cube, and take the nest apart - check out fort knox 😂 i hope they can breathe in there - they are basically in the middle of that cube - i particularly like the loo roll decoration she made, literally wrapping it around the cube 😂 I think it's fair to say that she is looking after them, so I'm going to just wait now, maybe even until they come out by themselves in a couple of weeks. I just don't want to risk it until they are old enough so that if she did suddenly reject them, they have at least a chance of survival.

I wish the perspex would arrive though - those gaps at the bottom are not good, but not much i can do to speed it up.

The lady of the manor had a bit of mac and cheese for breakfast and half a boiled egg, which she enjoyed, she's still eating her mix as well, and we did see her pancaking outside of the nest today before going back in, I'm going to say that this is maybe normal behaviour for her - after all, it's both tiring and maybe a bit warm in there?

who knows, but i'm just SO relieved that she is back.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

I'm afraid it's not good news. She is spending hours away from the nest, and we've not seen her near the nest for a very long time.

I feel i have no choice but to check on the kittens, but i think this is not going to be good news. I checked on her at 6, and it doesn' tlook like she's been near the nest for almost 4 hours.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

So - she hadn't gone back. I went to check on the babies, and after i did, she went back to the nest.

This will be the end of me, seriously 😦 So, i've handled one just to check on the milk band situation. I guess we have a milk band. Also they were nice and warm.

so here you are - and no, i didn't take them all out, just this one little one. I will assume they all have milk bands, i'm assuming this is a milk band - they are 5 days old today.

i need to lie down.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

So, I think this is the situation. We have a teenager mother. And maybe she's too warm.

She will go and feed the babies, then wrap the entire nest so far that you cannot see the babies or anything, they were pretty buried in there.

Then she will leave the nest completely for most of the day, apparently going back every once in a while to feed them, but otherwise wont' stay in the nest.

Weird behaviour, but i'm guessing maybe she's not hugely maternal but is keeping them going (she was not at all defensive of the nest when i went near it btw), or maybe she is just really too warm in that cube.

We thought when we first got them that they had mites, they both seemed so itchy. But it got better by itself, and neither of them slept in the (fleece) hammocks but kept pancaking on the plastic shelves instead - what we concluded is that maybe they were used to living in a shed, or garage? Maybe they have a different sort of coat and were hence too warm?

So maybe that is the case now - she sleeps outside of the nest at the exit now, not in it. Who knows, but we know now that this seems to be normal behaviour for her.

I bought the second cage btw - it's a half decent size but totally rat-unsuitable long term, for a start we'll have to put something heavy on the top of it or i think they would lift the cage bit off - but it's good to know that i have something for the boys - if there are indeed any.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Just a quick update - i'm chatting with a breeder who is only about 30 minutes away from me (phew!) and also am talking to woodgreen (the charity) whose small animal behaviourist will ring me on wednesday morning (how amazing is that?)

all is quiet, she is on the nest for a change which is reassuring. I'll keep you posted!

 

[KeithB]

That is fantastic, I am so glad you are getting advice from the experts. That baby looks so much bigger in the second photo, it is amazing how fast they grow. Right enough, with just three kittens mum should have plenty of milk to go around to ensure they are well fed, and she will not need to visit the kittens quite as often as if she had a whole lot of them vying to be fed. It is also great that mum is not aggressive at all so with luck she'll you handle the kittens in due course without any fuss. Fingers crossed it will be smooth sailing for you all now! Best wishes and please do keep us posted.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Good morning - right? haven't they grown? I'm taking that as a good sign as well. We are also now the proud owner of one of those hamster cages with a large opening, so mummy is going to move today, i will feel more comfortable when i know she can definitely not escape to see her friends. Also, the other two are not exactly in a comfortable place without the bottom floor, and it's not so easy to clean either, so that's what we'll do this afternoon.

Other than that, all seems well 😊 If we do decide to check on them, I'll send some photos.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

So this is the new cage we got yesterday - we now have 3 cages lol - so mum and babies are moving into this this afternoon

 

[shieldmaiden44]

oh, and the stuff outside of the cage came with it and won't be used, in case anyone worries... and i will need to give it a good clean.

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Move to hamster cage was successful. We basically set it up, then 'stole' the cube out of the cage when mama was not on the nest, then transported mama in her 'spaceship' to the new cage. She ran around for a bit, ate some more egg, ran some more and then - went straight back into the nest. And we can still hear them making their tiny squeaky noises

 

[shieldmaiden44]

we decided that the move might be upsetting/stressful enough so won't check on them for now. i'm going to say that the squeaking and the fact that mum went straight back in is good enough for me!

 

[KeithB]

Super, it sounds as if everything is going really well. They'll be all fuzzy now and when you do check on them next you'll see what colours they are, and this time next week their eyes will be starting to open. Exciting times!

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Very exciting, fingers crossed 😊

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Update - little ones are more noisy than ever, and mama rat ate an entire egg for breakfast, but - she actually took it all into the nest with her. I'm taking that as a good sign, and guess i'd better start planning for rat baby food

 

[shieldmaiden44]

Update - little ones are more noisy than ever, and mama rat ate an entire egg for breakfast, but - she actually took it all into the nest with her. I'm taking that as a good sign, and guess i'd better start planning for rat baby food

Unflattering photo of one of the babies 😂