[ladylady]

Few days of sniffles, they have all had it off and on and the vet said to only treat them if they were poorly, off their food ect.
When I got home last night Poppy looked rough so we went to the pet hospital
22.30 5mls s/c fluid, big baytril injection
00.30 2.5 mls sugary soy milk orally, by syringe, shes bot feeding herself.
06.30 0.3 mls Baytril, one ml sugary soy milk, still groggy
11.30 Mouth breathing, not even acknowledging the fluids dropping into her mouth
14.45 Metcam antiinflammatory injection, 24hr dose
16.30 Still mouth breathing, awake but scared looking, not taking any fluids by mouth, out in bathroom with full bath with some vaporub in it as vet recommended, set up home made steam room
(vet wouldnt nebulise her, not enough evidence, not licensed ect
18.15 Still mouth breathing, not taking fluids oraly, warm water given rectaly most of which has been expeled (all over my knee :lol: )

When will the Metcam start to reduce the inflammation in her respiratory tract so she can breath again?
Its nearly time for her next Baytril dose and shes not taking fluids by mouth at all.

My vet said that all we can do, the meds she has got and lots of steam.

 

[ladylady]

I spoke to the vet again who said to give the next dose of Metcam early, there is a risk of organ failure doing this so fingers crossed. I dropped that and 0.5mls of Baytril into her mouth, most of it went down, well went somewhere anyway, her tummy I hope. Given her some more home steam sessions and I can now hear the snot moving so I think that is a good sign.

She is going to be so tired she has been awake all day now gasping for breath.

Vet said to keep up the rectal fluids which I am. She has taken a little honey soy milk and water mix but I feel its risking aspiration give it.

 

[Cassi]

aww hope she is ok fingers crossed for her and well done on doing handling it all so well...you are doing everything you really can just make her feel as safe and secure as you can while this is going on, maybe put her in a nice warm blanket

 

[ladylady]

Thank you Cassi
Emergency vet said it was a case of waiting for the meds to kik in and the steamy bathroom was better than treating her at the hospital, continue the nursing care and keep her stress down.

 

[Kimmiekins]

We have a few ratties that are in the same boat, to varying degrees, so I can understand how you're feeling!

Is your vet an exotics vet? I ask because our vet - who specializes in exotics and studied rats extensively in college, advises only oral or SQ fluids via syringe in extreme cases. I'd be concerned about pushing fluids rectally, especially in a rat...

I'm also wondering why they're not attempting a combo cocktail of AB's. A baytril/doxy combo is a good slap to any infection, and I know people have had success with zithromax in a combo, too.

Also, did they not nebulize? Do they not think she needs to be in an oxygen tank? Steam works great when it's not deep in the chest, but it sounds like she's very much in distress and can't breathe... Steam can only do so much.

Just trying to toss out what we've had success with. With any respiratory distress, we (via our vet) start baytril, doxy or both, and nebulize with... shoot, I can't remember what they give us (they usually mix with saline in a syringe for easy nebulizing). We do have a neb. at home, but they usually do the first treatment.

EDIT: I'd meant to add... Aggressive treatment with rats when it comes to resp. distress is really the best option. Even then, it's not a guarantee, but when they've gotten as far as not being able to breathe, it's life or death.

 

[lilspaz68]

You have a very sick girl on your hands .5 ml's is a lot for one girl of baytril, could you not get your vet to mix it much more concentrated so its only .05 cc's instead? There will be no way you will get that amount in a sick gasping rat.

She cannot swallow while gasping for breath. She needs sub-q fluids and/or hospitalization if she does not improve. The 5 ml's of sub-q fluids she received will be okay for a little while. You can check for dehydration by pulling up fur on her scruff tight then letting go. It should smoothly drop back into place. if it takes more than 2 seconds then you have a dehydrated rat on your hands.

I am not sure what you are supposed to be accomplishing with rectal fluids. She needs sub-q or oral fluids if she is dehydrated.

When you steam her is it really helping? There are times that steaming can make things worse since they have so much fluid in their lungs that it just adds to it. Just watch her carefully.

As for the metacam, its not as dangerous as its supposed to be. I have often given small doses of metacam 12 hours after surgery for pain. I have also given high doses for pain/inflammation over months of a horrible skin condition called Pyoderma.

For the lung inflammation you should be using a steroid as that is the best for reducing inflammation. Something like oral prednisone or injectable dexamethasone can really help a lot. Metacam is a 2nd choice in matters like these.

There is also lasix a diuretic which might help with the fluid in her lungs as well.

I am sorry to hear your sweetie is not doing well.

 

[kaylaface]

I hope she gets better.

 

[ladylady]

Thanks folks. I have been given Baytril for resp problems three times now.
I have seen 4 different vets for chest probs between 3 rats and non have given ab combos, nebs or steroids.
The e vet didnt feel that hospitalisation or any other treatments would help.
Sertaily the vet who gave the metcam and agreed with rectal fluids has plenty rat experience, the e vet Im not sure.

Oh I dont know what to do next. I could print out the recommendations for the vet to see.

 

[ladylady]

Shes gone.
I decide to get a few hours kip in the bathroom with her on my chest, I didnt sleep much, just listened to her breathing, she was getting squeakier, I thought is was the sound of the air starting to go through her nose again but it must have been her throat closing up, she got a bit panicky and fell off her feet, had a little kick to one side and gave up. I breathed into her mouth and I could hear her lungs inflation but I think her heart had already stopped, I couldnt feel it through her chest like normal, I tried for a couple of mins but her jaw went hard so I just put her to my chest where she likes to be and gave her a hug.
Im not sure what the other girls think, when I went in and opened the cage the just peeked out the door, Mouse came first and nibbled her foot like "whats that?" and then they all had a good sniff and climbed on me.
Shes wrapped up in a fleece now on my knee, I dont know when to put her down, you know, when she wont "be there " any more.

 

[glindella]

I'm sorry for your loss :-(

 

[ladylady]

Thankyou

Im glad I didnt got to bed I nearly did.
I feel guilty, like I could have done more.
My vet had said only to treat if they were off their food and look ill ect, Lola had had it a few weeks ago and I had just watched it and started the baytril when she was really snotty, she got better really quickly and by the time she was at the vet there was nothing wrong with her, thought maybe she would have recovered herself so I guess thats why I wasnt to worried about Poppy until she started looking rough. Everyone saying she should have had other meds, I should have known and pushed the vet to prescribe them

She was such a sweetie, so clever and learned to trust me really quickly and taught her sister things too. I took her to the emergency vet down my top and every time i got her out for the vet to see her she dived back in
Im really gonna miss her I wasnt ready for such a young girly to die.

 

[Kimmiekins]

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[lilspaz68]

ladylady I am very sorry your girl left you. It sounded like she had pneumonia and needed drastic measures to save her. I had to learn how to inject sub-cutaneously to save my girl.

Once you really start reading up, you will realize that not all vets are created equal. I do not take the word of my own fantastic vet on her own merit. I research on top of it all, even her dosages to make sure all is well.

I am being forced to see a vet tomorrow that thinks he is a rat vet but who is sure baytril is poisonous to rats after 7 days and won't prescribe it for any more. He also is convinced my domestic caged rats are roaming around outside in infected puddles with wild animal urine and will give me leptospirosis...I cannot convince him otherwise...see what I mean?

When a rat goes off its food, its serious. Rats in the wild hide their illnesses since it will be a death sentence if a predator notices that. Our rats do the same thing, thats one of the reasons they go downhill so fast. If you see a porphy nose, and nothing else abnormal, you can wait. If you see a porphy nose then a secondary symptom (sneezing, lethargy, puffed up fur and half closed eyes, going off their food, dehydration, wheezing, crackling, snotty sounds, etc) then you have a sick rat that needs the vet.

Pneumonia is a killer thats for sure, but a course of combo abs such as baytril/doxy, baytril/zithromax, plus a steroid for lung inflammation can sometimes save them. You can buy your own nebulizer if you ever needed one again, but would have to get the meds from a vet.

Its very sad when they struggle while leaving us like that. ((hugs))