[CateLW]

Hi all,
I adopted two 6-month-old sisters from a lady needing to rehome (time constraints). They came from a group with 3 other older females and was told they are the result of a friends oops litter. A day or two after I got them back, they both bit me fairly badly while I was tidying up the cage and offering my hand to sniff (clean hands). I assumed they just needed time to settle, but then a couple of weeks later Trudy bit me again badly (blood EVERYWHERE) and Juniper (usually the sweet one) bit me last night. When I say bite, I mean they’ve broken skin and drawn blood, there have been plenty of nips and tests in between which I have corrected. Their previous owner says she has never had an issue with picking them up and they have never bitten her.
I’m now on 4 fairly serious bites and I’ve never known pet rats to be this aggressive! With Trudy, I have been following a forced socialisation approach from Tiny Toes rat rescue for aggressive rats which has helped, but I cannot approach either rat inside the cage. They bring themselves out to the door or I pick Trudy up using a towel. Of course, I don’t just grab them, I gently and slowly scoop and call their name beforehand.
The girls have been with me for over a month now, they have a large cage, are scatter fed plus foraging toys and I free-roam them in a secure, obstacle-filled room for at least an hour a day.
Feeling a bit out of my depth, if anyone has any advice I’d be extremely appreciative!

 

[Mkd]

Sounds like you're doing everything right. Cage size is extremely important cause without freedom they can be stressed out. I had a rat in a large cage and temporarily moved her to a smaller cage and she bit me too. What size do you consider a large cage?

 

[CateLW]

Sounds like you're doing everything right. Cage size is extremely important cause without freedom they can be stressed out. I had a rat in a large cage and temporarily moved her to a smaller cage and she bit me too. What size do you consider a large cage?

Hiya!
They are in a Cozy Pet RC02 (52 x 80 x 127.5 cm), I was taken aback by how big it was when I arrived! It's kitted out pretty well, lots of hides, ropes, stuff to chew, hammocks, baskets etc.
I've never known rats to bite this much! :/

 

[Mkd]

If they were my rats I think floor space is more important than height. I'd lay it on its side so 127 cm would be their floor space. I'd probaby buy another one and zip tie them together and cut an opening through the bars so they could go back and forth between 2 cages to give them even more space. Sorry but I believe in as much space as possible. I have 6 cages zip tied together like that and my cages are about 50cm by 80cm by 80cm
And made each one 2 stories. Just wanted to give them as freedom as possible.

 

[Tinytoes]

Oh boy, it's tough when they are biting like that and you aren't sure why. Are they coming to your hand and pouncing on it to bite? Or is your hand coming too close to them while you are cleaning and moving things around in their cage? Their cage is their safe place, their home, and it sounds like they are defending it. If they perceive you as a threat because they don't really know you yet, then they are not ready for your hands to be in their home. It really does take time, weeks. For you to be safe right now, only clean while they are sleeping, and talk the whole time so they know you are there.

How are they when you feed them? Do they come up front and get their treat, but don't want to be touched? Food is a good measure of how comfortable they are.

 

[CateLW]

Oh boy, it's tough when they are biting like that and you aren't sure why. Are they coming to your hand and pouncing on it to bite? Or is your hand coming too close to them while you are cleaning and moving things around in their cage? Their cage is their safe place, their home, and it sounds like they are defending it. If they perceive you as a threat because they don't really know you yet, then they are not ready for your hands to be in their home. It really does take time, weeks. For you to be safe right now, only clean while they are sleeping, and talk the whole time so they know you are there.

How are they when you feed them? Do they come up front and get their treat, but don't want to be touched? Food is a good measure of how comfortable they are.

Hi, thanks for the reply!

They will come over to my hand to bite, but they will happily bring themselves out of the cage onto my lap and be petted and picked up there (and on the sofa and when free roaming) though after Trudy went hard I'm extremely cautious with her regardless.
They're happy to have their treats, they'll come to the door and/or out, Trudy will take hard foods back in to eat but Juni will eat anywhere.
I will try cleaning whilst they sleep though they tend to wake up and come rushing over - no other signs of aggression though which is what got me :S at the moment I either coax them into their carrier or put them on the sofa with my other half whilst I clean so there's no accidents!

Whilst it's possible just to completely avoid in-cage contact I would much rather tackle the issue, for their sake and my own! :/

 

[lfraser06]

First, when you extend your hand to them, curl your fingers under - like a loose fist, it's harder for them to bite. If they bite or attempt to, pull your hand aqay quickly, squeak loudly and say "don't bite". The squeak tells them they are doing something hurtful, the verbal command eventually teaches them to associate what they did with what you're saying.
Once you've done that - disengage with them - walk away from the cage for at least 15 minutes. Lather; rinse; repeat.

Never feed them treats through the cage bars. Either hold it out to them (with the more exposed part of the treat towards them to help cut down on accidental bites), or put it in their dish.

Also go slow with them. It sound like they've been through quite a bit of changes in a months' time. Be patient. You can't make them trust you - you just have to be consistent and patient until they do.

It's also a good idea to not stick your hand into any of their hides or hiding spots. That's their territory. Give them a few days of not sticking your hands into the cage and then, just put your hand in a little bit - call them - and see if they come to you - if they don't, leave them be and try again later. When you're in the vacinity of their cage or notice them watching you - talk to them, use their names and just talk to them in a normal tone of voice. It will help them become accustomed to you. Talk to them as you approach the cage, so your sudden appearance doesn't startle them.

Good luck.

 

[Mkd]

Just wear gloves till they get use to you

 

[Tinytoes]

what @lfraser06 said, good advise. They sound like lovely girls, they just need...more time. Keep trying, be careful and they will come around. The reason for biting is to stop you from coming into their home, so the more you gently let them know you mean no harm, the more accepting they will be of their new situation.

 

[CateLW]

Hi all,
Thanks so much for the advice!
I only recently learned the fist trick from watching Isamu videos and it's super useful!
I will say I NEVER feed through the bars - never have or will with any small animal, but that may not have been the case for them previously, I don't know!
I also never stick anything near their hideouts, I think I'd be kind of asking for it if I did that!
I also avoid gloves as all rats like to chew fabric (evidenced by one curtain and one bed spread!).
I will follow the instructions you suggest @lfraser06, I haven't been disengaging when they bite tbh.
They are good coming to the door and having snacks (Trudy less so) and are starting to even learn recall <3 I've just never had rats be so aggressive inside the cage, it's been a bit of a confidence knock and a bit upsetting (for all of us I think!).
Thank you all much appreciated!
Xx

 

[lfraser06]

Hi all,
Thanks so much for the advice!
I also avoid gloves as all rats like to chew fabric (evidenced by one curtain and one bed spread!).
Xx

Funny story for you. I don't wear gloves when I interact with my girls, however, I do wear medical exam style gloves when I clean their cage. One of my girls, (Turvy) is for some reason, antagonized by the gloves and will "attack" them. I believe she thinks she's protecting both her and her cage mate, Gigi, as she didn't do this before we got Gigi.

Fortunately, I have a cage style where I can keep them on the top level while I clean the bottom, and visa versa. Once I'm done and take the gloves off to give them a treat, Turvy acts as nothing happened. I really don't think she realizes it's my hand in the gloves.

 

[Tinytoes]

They are telling you that you're not welcome in their house, so you have to keep going in there until they learn that biting will not stop you, and that you mean them no harm. They have such defined personalities, and are bold little buggers when they want things their way. You be the boss until they accept the situation, but respect their safe hides and food if those trigger their aggression.

 

[Tinytoes]

Funny story for you. I don't wear gloves when I interact with my girls, however, I do wear medical exam style gloves when I clean their cage. One of my girls, (Turvy) is for some reason, antagonized by the gloves and will "attack" them. I believe she thinks she's protecting both her and her cage mate, Gigi, as she didn't do this before we got Gigi.

Fortunately, I have a cage style where I can keep them on the top level while I clean the bottom, and visa versa. Once I'm done and take the gloves off to give them a treat, Turvy acts as nothing happened. I really don't think she realizes it's my hand in the gloves.

That is too funny. It's like your gloved hands are a unique beast, so Turvy to the rescue!