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Discussion Starter #1
Well I was finally able to get Alyssa a friend!!! His name is TempleTon... yea its a boy. But its ok they dont share a cage and I dont plan on breeding them for a while ((if i deside too)). Its weird cuz Alyssa will try to umm "Hump" him but he ignores her even when she jumps on him and nips at him, Alyssa absolutly adores him. I would like to eventually get him fixed anyway so they can share a cage. Does anyone know about how much it cost to get a male rat fixed??

TempleTon is like twice as big as Alyssa, the only pet store that I could find that sell rats around here was out of females so I just went ahead and bought the friendliest, calmest and healthiest looking male of the 6 that were left. Hes really funny... when you go to pet him he'll just freeze and let you pet him all you want, its adorable. Its funny cuz I got him exactily a month after Alyssa, I got Alyssa March 19 and I got TempleTon April 19 ((sorry i didnt tell you about templeton sooner, i have the 3 day rule)).

Ive got a couple pics of him here:




 

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I'm sorry, I don't know much about rats yet, so this could be a stupid question, but wouldn't letting a male and female rat play together still leave you with a chance of pregnancy?

He is a very pretty boy though, I love his markings!
 

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congrats on the new rat :) surprised about a few things you said.
Rats can mate in seconds-they'll do it anyware! no shame :)
Breeding rats is complicated and needs expertese to get the healthyest friendlyest litters
Rats like company and might like somerat to curl up with, eat with ect
Not sure about fixing prices but it might be cheeper to take him back and get a lady cage mate when there is one availible
 

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Until he's fixed DON'T let them play together. A rat can do it before you know it, they are like so fast they could be mating and you won't realise it. Please let them play seperately.

He is very cute, get him neutered A.S.A.P. and THEN they can play. And please don't breed pet store rats, there are tons of complications that could arise from the unknown genetics. Lots of respitory problems and such. I know you said you would get him neutered but it also looked like you were wavering on breeding them and I'm just letting you know it's bad news for the mom and babies if you do. The babies could live a very short life and die horribly from bad genetics and I'm sure you don't want that on your hands. Not to mention there are tons of rats out there needing to be adopted.

That being said, did you buy a larger cage? What are the dimensions of the new one you brought your new boy?

He's a cutie by the way, just keep him away from Alyssa until you can go snip snippy him and you'll be fine.
 

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NEVER let intact female/male rats play together.

Also, now that you have a new rat, you need a much larger cage.
 

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Also - why are you planning on breeding at all? You have absolutely NO idea what's in either rat's genetics. Only accredited, educated breeders with PEDIGREED rats should breed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well I always keep an eye on them when they play together but I dont think I should worry about them mating to much cause he acts like she doesnt exist... if anything shes all over him more that he even looks at her. Im figuring it shouldnt cost to much getting TempeTon fixed, as he is a small animal compared to a dog or cat. Im just worried he'll get sick after the prosedure or something.

Now I do know TempleTons cage is to small for him but im working on getting larger cages right now for the both of them. and I think im ganna make my closet a temporary cage for him as its bigger than the cages hes in now.

Yes I was debating on making 1 or 2 litters out of them once Alyssas old enough, just so ill have some exsperience with baby rats for the future. Plus how are you suposed to become an exspert at breeding rats if you dont breed them. I know hamsters arent the same as rats but there close enough and I bred hamsters for 3-4 yrs so I do have alot of exsperience with baby rodents. Alyssas only 4-5 months old right now anyway so itll be a month or 2 before she can breed ((and im not planning on breeding her more than twice)).
 

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Well, I would think that yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but they should start with rats with lines that are known to be good lines, so that they can build a good reputation with the people receiving the kittens...

Keeping an eye on them is good, but if he does take an interest for even a moment, I doubt you could stop anything before it happens...
 

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Oh my god.

First: You should have checked out prices on neutering in your area WAY before considering bringing a male rat home.

Second: Since you don't consider Alyssa's cage small at all (even though it really, REALLY is) I worry what kind of cage you have Templeton in.

Third: Stop letting them play together. It's a completely moronic idea.

Fourth: Why on earth do you need experience with baby rats? The way a person gets experience with baby rats and breeding, is by being mentored by a real breeder. Not by putting two random rats together, completely without thinking, just to do it. You have absolutely no knowledge of raising rats, and you should NOT be doing it. You have no idea what either rat carries in their genetics or lineage.

Also - if you're worried about the price of a simple neuter, you need to steer clear from breeding. What happens if there's a problem with the labor? Just walking through the door of an emergency vet's office is $75-$100. A c-section can be upwards of $500. Do you have that kind of money?

You shouldn't be planning to breed either of them AT ALL.
 

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if you read the link poppysead posted you wont want to breed them. If you want rat babies consider fostering a pregnant mum or litter, or if you want to be a breeder, start saveing and educating yourself.
I have read somewere that rats mate in less than 5 seconds (very unseramonious!) so It would be risky to let them play together.
The closet sounds like a palace! Sounds really cool if you are ok giveing up your storage
 

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Please, for the love of your OWN rat discontinue their playing together. You don't want her pregnate, you don't want her and a possible litter to die and you don't seem like you can afford the possibility of a c-section. With thousands of rats out there NEEDING homes, rescues overflooding with unwanted unhomed rats, there really is no excuse for you to risk it. I know she needs a friend, but not at the risk of her life. You won't be able to stop it if they do it, it could take a split second and if seperated could hurt the male and female and the sperm could already be deposited.

I KNOW you care for Alyssa which is why I scratch my head at you never taking advice. You may be hard headed and MAY think you know everything but the fact is no one here does. Please take the time to read the link I posted and please keep your rats from playing with eachother UNTIL you neuter your male.

And a female rat can get pregnate as young as five weeks old.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well with the closet i dont use it for storage so its basicly empty and its not as big as a normal size closet ((maybe half that)) but its big enough for him to live in temporaly.

Well the thing with rats with bloodlines is there way to exspesive for... a rat ((in my personal view)).. they only live like 3-5 yrs. and what if I started my own new blood line, i plan to start my own rattery eventually anyway so why not start with 1 litter this year.. keep a female baby and when that baby is about 1-2 yrs of age breed her and so on.. and i could document it all. Ive done my homework and new rat blood lines are started everyday, you cant posibly think they knew what the first ever bred rats bloodline was so it wouldnt hurt to start a new bloodline. and i could work on getting the papers to prove the bloodline once its started ((alyssa and templeton being the start of the bloodline))

I dont know everything about rats so yes im always taking advice from other people forums and even if i dont say im taking your advise i usually do. And again the only way to become an expert at breeding rats is to do it, learn from your mistakes, fix them and do it again till you get it right. Like when i bred hamsters, when i first bred them a few babies died then after breeding them a couple times i new what i was doing and i dont have problems anymore.

And yes i know rats can breed at only a couple weeks old but i read from several places that its best to breed a rat between the ages of 5-8+ months old. And they dont really sell rats in ma. ((as it was hard for me just to find alyssa)) so i think it would be fairly easy to find the babies good homes as i know of severely people looking to adopt rats.
and they dont have many rats around here so itll be imposible to find and foster a rat with babies, and i dont know anyone who owns rats.
 

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Woah. I'm truly shocked. And i thought i'd heard it all.

To add to the concerns that everyone has already expressed - where would you keep the babies? If you can't afford a bigger cage for Alyssa, or a neuter for your new rat, how are you going to be able to afford a nursery tank, plus seperate cages for the males and females when you are weaned? How are you planning on finding them all homes? Do you actually know anything about breeding rats?

Choosing to breed Alyssa seems selfish - it will put her through immense stress and pain, and possibly lead to complications, either during the birth or later life. Instead of investing time and money into breeding her, i'd get your male neutered and get them a bigger cage.

Please don't breed her. This is verging on animal cruelty. I can't see why anyone would choose to put their animal through pregnancy, especially when the owner is so young and can't provide proper housing.

Sorry if i come off harsh, i'm just concerned for your rats.

I just think you're far too young and inexperieced to be doing something like this. If a rattery is what you want to start, begin by getting in touch with professional breeders and learn the tricks of the trade. Breeding pet store rats is not a good idea. They might be born with birth defects (as one of my rats was) and be very sickly.
 

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Alyssa_Rat said:
it wouldnt hurt to start a new bloodline.

Yes, it could. Breeding unknown rats could create mutations and disfiguring complications that may be genetic.


Alyssa_Rat said:
I dont know everything about rats so yes im always taking advice from other people forums and even if i dont say im taking your advise i usually do. And again the only way to become an expert at breeding rats is to do it, learn from your mistakes, fix them and do it again till you get it right. Like when i bred hamsters, when i first bred them a few babies died then after breeding them a couple times i new what i was doing and i dont have problems anymore.
WHAT!?!?!

NO. NO NO NO NO NO. You do NOT risk the lives of animals just to 'learn from the mistakes". That is morally WRONG and an innacurate way for you to learn. You do not have the tools neccesary to take samples of the DNA and see what went wrong.

Alyssa_Rat said:
And yes i know rats can breed at only a couple weeks old but i read from several places that its best to breed a rat between the ages of 5-8+ months old. And they dont really sell rats in ma. ((as it was hard for me just to find alyssa)) so i think it would be fairly easy to find the babies good homes as i know of severely people looking to adopt rats.
and they dont have many rats around here so itll be imposible to find and foster a rat with babies, and i dont know anyone who owns rats.
It's good to see you've thought ahead, but still, NO. It would be inhumane and illogical for you to breed your rats. You don't know what kind of genes they have, you don't know whether or not they're prone to myco falreups, you don't know if the rats may possibly have a genetic defect making the females in their litters barren, or the males sterile.


The ONLY way I would REVER reccomend you breeding is if you talk to a credited and experienced breeder, ask if you can follow them through a breeding and pregnancy and help out with the work. After a few years of that, maybe then you could take a pair from the litters you've helped birth and breed them. That way you will know their genetic background, you will have had experience, and you will be able to plan for the best and the worst.


Proper breeding, in no way, will make you money. It will cost you money. So don't go thinking down that road.
 

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I know very little bout breeding and whatnot-How do you start another bloodline? Who do you choose a pair that will be healthy and friendly while staring a new carateristic?
 

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They aren't expensive at all. If you aren't willing to pay a simple $35 for a rat who has a proven and healthy pedigree then you really shouldn't breed. Rats that deliver babies could require a c-section costing hundreds of dollars. Do you have a rat savy vet nearby? Also if you wish to start a new bloodline it could take YEARS of stillbourns, breeding unhealthy rats that die by the time they are 12 months, paying vet bill after vet bill for rats that you bred that you couldn't find homes for, purchasing HUGE cages for your rats, etc. You think a breeder rat with a proven bloodline is expensive yet what about in the future when you have a rat with missing eyes or limbs because of bad genetics? Or one with a lower immune system? Now THAT is expensive.

IMO, don't breed. You are too young and hard headed right now to do such a thing to your poor ratty. Take your time being a kid and take the time to love both of your ratties with their SEPERATE playtime until you get him neutered. You said you don't know any rat lovers in your area, that's more than enough reason right there. Maybe there just isn't the ratty demand over there which leaves you with 12 possibly deformed babies to take care for the rest of their lives, if a litter even survives.

Also hairless girls tend to be horrible mothers rejecting their babies or not lactating properly. If you don't have a back up mommy to foster DON'T breed hairless. Even if she is a double rex with a little fur she could still have these genes that make her bad at mothering. Sure she may seem loving to you but one a litter comes and she kills them by neglect that blood is on your hands, not the rats.

Worst case scenerios happen, more often than you think. Please don't breed yet. Maybe you want to breed in the future and that's fine, but do your research, TONS of it. Foster litters, even if you have to wait. Find people in your area that are rat lovers, get connected. In the end years of waiting before breeding will pay off.

Please think before you breed. I know your young and reading a few things here and there is a ton of research to someone who is young and new to rats but I'm talking YEARS of research and finding connections. You've only been a rat owner for a few months and don't even know about proper cage requirements. Take your time for the love of your own animals and the future little fuzzy lives you want to take in your own hands.
 

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Heres a few bits Ive found so far-

Hobby breeding is unlikely to be an economic success story. If you are going to feed and house your breeding rats, and their kittens well, provide veterinary care where needed, and go out of your way to make sure your babies get to their new homes, you will find that it probably costs you money to have a litter rather than you making a profit.

Taking two beautiful rats and putting them together won�t always result in a litter of rattie Miss World�s, and you can easily take two rats of your favourite varieties (say silver fawn and blue) and produce a whole litter of agoutis. Rather more thought and knowledge of the lines the rats come form, and their genetics is needed.

Breeding to improve a variety is a long term commitment. Along the way you will probably accumulate more rats that you intended (those that never make breeding standard, those who you couldn�t find homes for, those returned due to changes in circumstances, those you couldn�t resist keeping because they were different, or just plain cute).

Before choosing which individual rats to breed from, do as much research as you can into the variety you have chosen to breed. Find out who else is breeding them and talk to them. All varieties have difficulties and glories that are specific to them, be sure you know what these are before beginning.

Then find out about the health and temperament of the extended family (parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc) of your chosen rats. If you deem this information to be important you may be cautious of using any rat for whom you find it difficult to glean this information. Breeding from unknown rats is a bit of a gamble and not the best place to start off in case things go badly wrong (for instance if there are temperament issues you could end up with a proportion of your kittens being aggressive, causing harm or needing castrated before they are a year old). If you are placing rats into pet homes you need to fully embrace your responsibility to be producing healthy and well mannered babies, who will be a joy to own. Breeding from healthy well mannered parents, from healthy well mannered lines is the best that you can do towards guaranteeing the same for your babies

It is my personal opinion that temperament and health should be first priorities when breeding, and that every mating should have the potential for improving desirable traits in the next generation (health, excellent temperament, body type etc).

http://www.shunamiterats.co.uk/ethics.html
 

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If you think buying a pedigreed rat is too expensive, you have no business breeding at all.
 
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