[twitch]

i'm going to have to take Iedani into the vet's tomorrow to be put down. she is too dangerous to keep any longer. i finally ironed out EXACTLY why she is biting and there is no solution to this problem.

as some of you may have known i have been having biting issues with Iedani. i've had for 9 months and she has always been nippy but when she was in my bedroom the only one she had a chance to bite was me or other rat savy people i invited up. now she lives in the living room of my apartment (the only space in the apartment that i can keep them) and my young son lives with me. it doesn't matter how often you tell a kid not put their fingers in the cage they do eventually. and she bites really hard (draws blood 9 times out of 10) and that's with me not jerking back in unmitigated fear like a child would.

i had different theories on why she could be biting and tested each. when i first got her i thought it was just that she wasn't properly handled. after forced socailization she was a BIT better. didn't bite as frequently at least and was't afraid when outside of the cage (stopped biting out of the cage entirely). so that was at least PART of the problem.

for a while after that i was stumped as to why she still bit, though now randomly. sometimes you could put your hand in and be fine others she'd have her pound of flesh. then i thought maybe she just wanted more room. afterall when she was out with all that space she was fine. so i expanded the cage. no change.

then violet came and she got friendly when there were less rats in the cage during my three cage circulations. so i thought maybe she just doesn't like to have so many rats in with her and that was making her generally cranky which she would take out on me. i moved her for a time to another cage (its small and something only really suited for one rat) but she was away from the other rats. for the first little while she was fine then she started biting again. so i put in twix (they hang out the most together) and gave her more toys thinking maybe she was bored or lonely. no change.

after the move i expanded the cage again. still not helping. at first i thought well, mayb ethe cage expansion will work but she just has to settle from the move. its been a month now and she still bites.

so i've gone through the reasons for biting. she's not afraid, she's not confusing me for food, and she's not playing rough. this only leaves that she's territorial. when she's out of the cage, her space, she's a very sweet rat. gives kisses, chases feathers, takes naps on my lap or shoulder. but inside the cage and she's out for blood, sometimes. but that makes her all the more dangerous, you can't tell if she's coming near you for affection or if she's coming for the attack. there's no clear difference in her body language between the two.

i've dealt with this biting issue for 9 months and i know she's 15 months old now. she probably won't live for very much longer anyway as rats only normally live 2-3 years anyhow ut my son is moving in this weekend and i have to protect him. its a really hard decision. i view my pets as family. Iedani is my daughter too. so to protect my son i have to hurt my daughter. but what other choice do i have?

with iedani biting once she decides that the space is hers she isn't adoptable. its hard enough finding homes for well adjusted rats let alone dangerous specail needs rats. its hard anywhere but especailly out where i live. i had to find homes for 24 babies nearly 2 years ago now and they were cute babies not bitey adults.

there's so much in me saying "DON'T! she's healthy and happy" but then the other part says "she's not safe to be around." its one thing for her to bite me. but another thing entirely to bite my young son or one of his friends who won't understand and be afraid afterwards.

i really really don't want to do this but i can see no other option. i'll be taking her in tomorrow afternoon. i'm going to beg my vet for an alternative but i'm not hopeful.

so this is goodbye for Iedani. i'm so sorry.

 

[Stephanie]

oh twitch i am so sorry i know exactly how you feel. I almost had to put my iriquois down because he bit my hubby alot (still does every now and then0 and i was not going to risk one of my children being biten. I am so sorry that you have to come to this decision i know i wasn't strong enough to.

 

[Night]

Have you spayed her? Maybe you can find a rescue to take her. Aggressive rats shouldn't be euthanized, in my opinion. Especially when they're happy and healthy.

 

[Poppyseed]

I really think you should take her to a rescue D: Even if they don't adopt her out, she could live her life out with them. Please don't kill her, I would take her if I were nearby but sadly I'm not.

 

[Dimitrius]

I hope you're able to find a suitable alternative.

 

[twitch]

the thing is she's NOT agressive. she's territorial. and she's random when she decides that she's going to bite. if it were mere agressoin, or at least constant then i might have been able to do something. if it were just agression there would be a better reason for it other then she's just overprotective of her space at times. and if she was consistantly biting then that's something i could have trained her to stop. but she's not like that. i've tried everything i can think of to get her to stop or even just to stop enough that shes not drawing blood anymore. but she won't even say sorry for biting when displined like the others will. she'll just keep biting me.

iwould love to be able to take her to a rescue but she won't be adoptable and they have no room for more permenant rats. the only rat no-kill rescue that i can access already has over 50 rats that can be homed. they have no room for someone like Iedani.

but like i said i'm going to beg the vet for other options. maybe she knows of another rescue or a rehab technique i don't know about. something. i don't want to kill her. it tears me apart that this is my only option but i can't have her biting children. i don't want her biting me but i cna deal with that. if she bites my kid then its terrible and my son will probably get a little wary of rats but i can deal with that as well. if she bites one of his friends? that could be a lawsuit from the parents and Iedani would be put down then anyway. away from me and out of my control. but still, i really don't want to kill her either. i just don't have anything else i can do.

Night- she is not spayed and the cost of the operation is too much for me to be able to afford and still have money left over if someone else gets sick and needs treatment. i have a vet fund and i try to keep it up as high as i can but its been depleted rather serverely recently between 2 tumor removals and medications. but even i had her spayed that won't stop the problem. this isn't a hormone aggression problem. if it was she would be consistant in her biting and show at least signs that she is about to bite instead of lick. shes not like that.

to everyone else- thank you for understanding how hard a decision this is and keeping hope that i will find a better alternative. i really appreicate that you understand how hard this is.

 

[Poppyseed]

I understand how hard it is, but did you ask these rescues if they could take her in or are you just assuming? I know it seems like a dumb question but I think you should at least ask if you havn't.

She sounds like a tough case, and I know you've done everything you could to help her and it hasn't worked, I'm not faulting you for trying. I just think she needs to be rehomed to someone willing to take on a very challenging rat, preferably someone without kids. Some people tend to be better with biters than others, not saying that you didn't do nearly everything in the book to aid her but some people understand their mind set better. I know my boyfriend Chris happens to be excellent with bitter animals in the past.

Like I said, I wish I lived near you so I could take her D: I'm sorry you are even having to consider this decision. But don't you think even if it is a kill shelter they will give her a greater chance of surviving than you just going to put her under?

I'm sorry for your tough decisions, just trying to help you save her.

 

[twitch]

a kill shelter will have her put down as soon as they realize she bites and bites hard. and that's only if i don't tell them that out right, in which case they won't accept her. i haven't contacted any shelter directly but a friend of mine was in recent contact with the only rat shelter in the province. that's how i know he has over 50 rats currently in his care. she was contacting him about a rat she knew of, a very happy licky one but with a poor owner who wanted to get rid of it. he was hesitant about taking in another rat at all but his heart is often too big for his own good. he would probably take Iedani but its not fair to him or his rescue. she will never be able to be adopted and he will have to take care of her forever. he will either come to the same conclusion i have or she will take space and money from rats that can be rehomed. its not fair to him or the rescue that way. but i know it not fair to Iedani for me to have her put under because of who she is. but maybe if i arrange a trade with him? or donate money for her regulary... i'll give him a call before i take her in to see if we can work anything out.

but that leaves me in a moral delima. she won't be adopted, not with the biting issue. so she will take up space and money for other rats that could be adopted even if i took a rat in trade to free space for her. where another rat would eventually leave to another home she'll always be there, always taking up that space. and will i always have enough money to be donating to them all the time. and because she bites and the rescue has so many rats how much put time could she have? i'm wary when taking her out but she does come out. and i only have the 8 to share time with and some days its difficult finding time for everyone plue the kid and school nad house work and everything else. imagine having to do all that and have over 50 rats!? he has such a big heart i don't think he would say no to any rat but that doesn't mean its fair to take advantage of. sure Iedani would be alive and with someone who absolutely adores rats but she will take a space that should be for the adoptable. but she'll be alive and that's better then dead.

i'll contact the rescue in any case but i'm not sure i'm doing the right thing there either. *bangs head on desk* why can not there not be just a book on what to do. clearly stated for everything that could happen in life. one massive instruction book.... *sighs* it would be so much easier... life should work that way dangit!

 

[Poppyseed]

Her biteing behaviour just sounds so abnormal and bizarre, almost sociopathic in a way... Good luck, the trade and sponser idea sounds good.

 

[twitch]

i know. i seem to end up with the weird ones. i had a another rat a while ago that i would have sworn was autistic. any little change and she was a royal grump. even if the room was off by only a few degrees and she'd be cranky. cage changing day was absolutely horrible on her.

 

[Kimmiekins]

Please don't put her down! If she's territorial just in her cage (cage aggressive, which does occasionally happen), then she's doing okay, and can maybe be rehabilitated by a good rat rescue, or at least become a permanent resident. (Not shelters, I'm talking rat rescues here.) I can understand not wanting to put your son in danger, so I can understand not wanting to have her there, but please see if a rescue can help. Maybe one that isn't so close, but a transport could be set up. Rat rescues are in it for exactly these types of problems.

I have a grumpy singleton that went psycho on other rats, causing injuries. We separated him for the safety of the others. It was like a bomb went off inside him, and he was ANGRY, biting us and not allowing us to handle him. He was cage aggressive for awhile, but with lots of time and patience, that went away. He's now one of the sweetest rats ever, he can be held and loved on, and hasn't bit in over 5 months. He cuddles and nuzzles, something he didn't even do before!

Where do you live? Maybe we can find a rat rescue that can help.

 

[reachthestars]

I will say, as someone who has experianced her biting, she gives NO WARNING whatsoever. One moment she's perfectly content and then CHOMP. She doesn't even bite quickly, it's a long drawn out to the bone type crunch that she won't release. Last time she got me I bled for 30 minutes even with pressure applied.

Twitch you have to do what is right for you, and what you feel you can live with. I know the work, love and effort you've put into this girl. I also see the scar on my hand and know you cannot put your son at risk having her around (so I'll take him ).

 

[Kimmiekins]

I'm not saying anything negative, just that there may be someone out there willing to help her girl! Not saying she hasn't tried. I just hate to hear of a rat put down for a behavior problem. Some people (rescues or otherwise) don't even mind keeping a rat that would need gloves warn for handling, let them live their lives as long as they are happy and healthy. That's what I was thinking.

Sorry for suggesting a rescue. I guess if she's that bad, then you need to do what feels right to you. Was just trying to help you and her... Sorry for saying anything. :? Thought if the rat went to a rescue, it would be a win-win situation.

 

[Stephanie]

Was just trying to help you and her... Sorry for saying anything. :? Thought if the rat went to a rescue, it would be a win-win situation.

But you forgot one very important factor kimmiekins ther is a small child involved and the welfare of the child ALWAYS comes first to a parent. it killed me when I had to give my riff raff back to the rescue I got him from but he was stalking (yes stalking i.e. chasing and trying to hunt) my son and daughter. I know you were thinking of the rat and that is great of you but when it comes to having kids around an aggressive rat it is always best to put the kid first and the rat second.

 

[Kimmiekins]

I understand that, as I already said, I DO understand that the child comes first, so I DO understand that a biting rat can not be kept in the house. What I was saying is instead of putting the rat DOWN, if a rescue (or someone) took the rat, then it IS a win-win situation. The child is safe, and the rat doesn't need to die.

So instead of - Rat to sleep, child safe.
I was saying - Rat to rescue (or experienced rat owner willing to work with the rat), child safe.

Which is no different, is it? Puts the child in no further danger, does it? Just that a happy, healthy rat stays alive. A win-win situation. Not putting a child in danger, or putting the rat first, child second!

Sheesh. I'm sorry I replied. I merely suggested seeing if someone wanted to help the rat, instead of ending it's life. She obviously cares for the rat, and I thought maybe if someone could help the rat, that would make her feel better about the whole thing, while keeping her child safe.

Never mind. Obviously I'm coming off differently then I mean to be, or something.

 

[Stephanie]

but what other child will be put in danger? I have gotten aggressive rats from rescues or animal shelters and they say that they are rehabilitated but they aren't that is why i am weary of adoption these days. How many chances does a dog get to bite? Here it is three after three bites they are put to sleep. So how many chances should a rat get? that is up to the owner and only the owner!

 

[Night]

Personally, I think that if an animal's adopted or brought into your home, you have to deal with ALL of it's quirks and issues. You don't put it to sleep or get rid of it when it starts causing problems. Rats aren't all going to be sweet and nice - some take REAL work. Moreover, considering the fact that she's apparently not aggressive, but is just territorial, she needs to be spayed. That will help take the edge off of her bitting. But, since money is apparently an issue, I guess it's better just to get rid of the animal, huh?

I see my animals as my children. If they need something, they get it - no matter what. I try until there are NO more options.

It's easy for people to see animals as disposable objects, sadly.

 

[twitch]

Personally, I think that if an animal's adopted or brought into your home, you have to deal with ALL of it's quirks and issues. You don't put it to sleep or get rid of it when it starts causing problems. Rats aren't all going to be sweet and nice - some take REAL work. Moreover, considering the fact that she's apparently not aggressive, but is just territorial, she needs to be spayed. That will help take the edge off of her bitting. But, since money is apparently an issue, I guess it's better just to get rid of the animal, huh?

I see my animals as my children. If they need something, they get it - no matter what. I try until there are NO more options.

It's easy for people to see animals as disposable objects, sadly.

what the F**K NIGHT!? do you think that option is easily come by?? do you think i just thought, hey, she bites, too much effort to deal with, might as well kill her!!??? for crying out load night think about you freaking words!! I view my pets as much my children as my human child too. but with human children we speak the same language and can have talks. with human adults that get this way they're locked up for hurting other people but that's not an option for rats who we don't speak the same language and jails aren't possbile. i DON'T want to kill her. i HAVE worked with her. but there's NOTHING more that i can do. a spay (and cheap at that) in my area is clsoe to $300 before taxes and that's if nothgin goes wrong or she needs extra meds. i just had 2 tumor removals and spent money on medications for foster. on top of that i've moved out and have not been able to replenish my vet fund like i used to be able to do.

*takes a deep breath* but you know what, defending myself to you is useless. you already have a preconcived notion of me and you obvisously refuse to see things from any other point of view then your elitist one. so i will ask you kindly to refrain from replying to my posts. i know this is a forum with free speech and all that but if all you're going to say is hurtful spiteful things i would greatly appreicate it if you would just bite your tongue. if you want to speak poorly of me then talk to one of your friends about it but don't force your hurtful and hateful remarks to me directly anymore. its not something i feel i need to deal with with you. so, once again, please refrain from any further responses to me.

 

[Sara_C]

Stephanie if a rat rescue is aware that a rat is aggressive/unpredictable i hardly think they will adopt it out to a family with children. They probably won't adopt it out at all.

 

[Night]

I just think you're being little bit selfish. From what you've said, she's fantastic out of the cage - a great little rat! So, deal with her eccentricities - this really isn't much of a problem at all. If she's territorial in her cage, just work around it. Not as though you can't take her out of it.