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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm new here, but not to rats. I have a couple and am always looking out for new ones.

Here is my current list. If Un-named it is still in Quarantine. I wont name a rat until i know it is healthy, especially if a saved feeder.

Please understand I own a snake and just sold my corns. I've never fed rats nor will I. My signiture will show what's in our zoo.

Here are our Rats:
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Name: Nitrate
Species: Rat
Sex: Male
Genes: Dumbo, Russian Blue, Self
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Name: Romeo
Species: Rat
Sex: Male
Genes: Dalmatian, Dumbo, Russian Blue
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Name: Surfer
Species: Rat
Sex: Male
Genes: Pearl, American Blue/Silver, Self
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Name: Precious
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Black, Pearl, Self
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Name: Caramel
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: R.E.W., Amber, Self
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Name: Treasure
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Irish-American Berkshire
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Name: Ecstasy
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Agouti, Self
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Name: Bashful
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Amber, Hooded
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Name: Innocence
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Amber, Himalayan, Lightning Split Capped
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Name: Trouble
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Amber, Himalayan
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Name: Destiny
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: R.E.W., Rex
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Name: un-named
Species: Rat
Sex: Female
Genes: Irish Berkshire, Hooded, Dalmatian
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jcapicy said:
So I'm new here, but not to rats. I have a couple and am always looking out for new ones.

Here is my current list. If Un-named it is still in Quarantine. I wont name a rat until i know it is healthy, especially if a saved feeder.

Welcome, but I will suggest not to 'save' feeders. It only raises the demand for them and opens a space for another poor-bred, miserable rat to fill the void.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We aren't saving feeders for the sake of saving feeders, but sometimes its the only way to find a color or pattern we are looking for.

I have a few pet shops that are requesting certain rats for me. But I won't take a poor tempered or ill rat.

We have only bought 4 feeders to date. I have 2 friends who also breed and we are all working on a few breeding projects. Right now my American Blue/Silver has 3 females to service to produce pets. as my one friends has a pet shop and sells pet rats for $5 -$10 depending on color, pattern, and genes. and his medium feeders are only $2.50 so he'd rather sell pets as pets and feeders as feeders. Plus feeders are more likely to get ill.

I would love to meet more people in my area into breeding/owning as well.
 

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"Saving" a feeder to get a color pattern you want just to breed it is a completely worthless endeavor. Sure, they may appear friendly and healthy, but who knows what's in their sorely overworked genetics?

I would suggest consulting with a REAL breeder about this sort of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I take it they are a touchy subject on here.

So how do you cull your ill/sick or otherwise?
 

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Uh... As far as I'm aware with take the ill or otherwise to the vet to be treated.

And if they cannot be treated and their quality of life is gone the vet puts them to sleep.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the harsh real world is just that harsh. and i am sorry if i was misleading but i don't but rats that are bred just to be feeders. the store i buy my rats from does there own breeding and keeps close track of their rats. only pets that cannot be sold as pets are used for feeders as the store tries not to buy bulk feeders for herp food. also i never said i was breeding the rats that were set as feeders.
 

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No, but you did say that you cull any rat that is 'otherwise'...

Would that mean 'not pretty enough'?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
And why not discuss culling? If i have two completely healthy parents give birth to a rat that is injured or possibly in pain i will be putting it in my C02 Chamber to be put down humainly.

It is a fact of breeding, and better to pass on without pain than suffer to death. and to look down on feeders as less important makes me sick. If i buy a rat that i like and the rat does not have to sit in a cage outside or in a hot back room and suffer than i am a better person for it.

Acting or thinking that feeders are less of an animal sounds a lot like a certain uniquely mustached historical figures idea of the human race.

Racism is ugly on any level.
 

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jcapicy said:
And why not discuss culling? If i have two completely healthy parents give birth to a rat that is injured or possibly in pain i will be putting it in my C02 Chamber to be put down humainly.
Injury or severe illness results in the rat being humanely put to sleep. In my opinion, CO2 is by no means humane, as the rat will feel like its lungs are being burnt. At-home euthanasia is rarely as humane as that done at a vets.
It is a fact of breeding, and better to pass on without pain than suffer to death. and to look down on feeders as less important makes me sick. If i buy a rat that i like and the rat does not have to sit in a cage outside or in a hot back room and suffer than i am a better person for it.
Many people here own feeders. I own rats that would likely have been otherwise sold as feeders. The reason they're avoided is not due to the rats themselves, it's due to the fact that no one really wants to support the feeder breeders that over produce rats without care to the rats genetics.

Acting or thinking that feeders are less of an animal sounds a lot like a certain uniquely mustached historical figures idea of the human race.

Racism is ugly on any level.
Oh yes, why don't you compare us to Hitler? That's not only childish, but utterly absurd.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I was discribing the attitude i was seeing not taking an attack at you. but since my first post i have gotten nothing but harsh attacks. Try being more friendly maybe. Jumping to conclusions and then down my throat does not at all make a few of the persons here look any better than how you see me.

Also, look up humane rodent killing. CO2 exfixiation is the only way the ASPCA and PETA deam humane as the animal falls asleep. no lung burn. people die from it every year because they never know it is happening. I looked this up for the mice i feed my snakes as freezing is deamed inhumane and a painfull way to die and i wanted an alternative so the animals did not suffer. Carbon Monoxide on the other hand does indeed burn when inhaled, but not Carbon Dioxide.

as far as supporting mass breeders for feeder rats i agree that the way that many/most of them keep their rats crammed together is wrong as well as the inbreeding or horrible soup mix of genes they are creating and I have not made a purchase from them.

I am sorry if i offended anyone by my posts, but not discussing the truth doesn't change it.
 

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jcapicy said:
I was discribing the attitude i was seeing not taking an attack at you. but since my first post i have gotten nothing but harsh attacks. Try being more friendly maybe. Jumping to conclusions and then down my throat does not at all make a few of the persons here look any better than how you see me.

Also, look up humane rodent killing. CO2 exfixiation is the only way the ASPCA and PETA deam humane as the animal falls asleep. no lung burn. people die from it every year because they never know it is happening. I looked this up for the mice i feed my snakes as freezing is deamed inhumane and a painfull way to die and i wanted an alternative so the animals did not suffer. Carbon Monoxide on the other hand does indeed burn when inhaled, but not Carbon Dioxide.
Carbon MONOXIDE kills people every year.

Carbon DIOXIDE is the stuff we breath out and is the atmosphere. And it hurts to breath in high concentrations of it.

as far as supporting mass breeders for feeder rats i agree that the way that many/most of them keep their rats crammed together is wrong as well as the inbreeding or horrible soup mix of genes they are creating and I have not made a purchase from them.

I am sorry if i offended anyone by my posts, but not discussing the truth doesn't change it.
No, it doesn't change it. But the truth SHOULDN'T be that way. Home euth. isn't recommended. Backyard breeding of pretty feeders isn't recommended. Doesn't mean people won't do it, but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

It may have been harsh to jump up and say "Do NOT discuss this," but part of the reason we don't is that we don't want anyone, especially someone new, to get the idea we APPROVE of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
is this not a discussion forum?

Also please look up the effects of a C02 Atmosphere before replying on that again.

Actually nevermind, you are all narrow minded fools and i am going to find another more educated group of intelligent people to discuss this topic.
 

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jcapicy said:
is this not a discussion forum?

Also please look up the effects of a C02 Atmosphere before replying on that again.

Actually nevermind, you are all narrow minded fools and i am going to find another more educated group of intelligent people to discuss this topic.
The atmosphere isn't entirely CO2. Pheh. You're impossible. And that doesn't mar that fact that it is in fact CO that you're referring to as killing people.

But you know what? If you feel better calling us names, pray, feel free to leave.
 

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Jay, yes. That's a 'feeder'.


And I, in no way, meant to attack anyone. But discussing home euthenasia and feeder rats on a pet rat forum seems like it's begging for a fight. Not only will it offend people, it may hurt, disgust, and upset others. Especially the younger viewers here on our forums.


Take care when discussing touchy topics on any forum, read around and get a feel for the place and see what is acceptable and what is not. Doing so completely voids any chance of a conlfict like we've had here.


Edited for typos.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I apologize to those of you who were polite but to those who shot down anything i said are no better than i am calling names. Would the topic of Euth or feeders be better placed in the Breeding section or not at all on the forum. If you want to be a jerk and reply like a child than move on please don't reply. I signed up on this forum as i have pet rats. I do breed a few select rats. I do not generally buy from mass breeders, and do not breed those rats if i do. I have herps that eat rodents. I do not, however feed them rats, but do use a CO2 chamber.

I again apologize for being an A$$ to those who were polite, curtious and mature.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
"The atmosphere isn't entirely CO2. Pheh. You're impossible. And that doesn't mar that fact that it is in fact CO that you're referring to as killing people." - Forensic

I never said the atmosphere was entirely CO2 and a high CO2 environment can kill. I'm not impossible your just being stubborn. C02 exfixiation is the only way deamed humane to euth any animal by American Veterinary Medical Association. it is the same way most all Pigs are euthed for human consumption.

CO2 Exfixiation causes you to feel happy, then your vision gets blurry, then you happily fall asleep, which if O2 is reintroduced you will wake up from feeling a little dizzy. if you continue to be exfixiated you pass in your sleep. There is no pain in a death by C02.

now for CO1(using CO1 instead of CO to prevent confusion). CO1 when introduced to O2 rapidly bonds to the O2 making CO2. the problem is when inhaled CO1 bonds to the O2 still in your body and it burns. causing many people to cough up blood and feel like their lungs are on fire. Hence making CO1 a painfull way to go. I have personally experienced CO1 exfixiation and can tell you it sucks! Locked in a room with a coast gaurd signal smoke grenade for 15 mins.

Hopefully this eases the subject a bit. and i promise to keep this convo to a very limited if never again topic. I just know from breeding herps and rodents alike defects can happen such as a cleft pallet or broken spine (more common in snakes) preventing the animal from being able to feed eventually starving it do death. Personally i'd rather fall asleep happy than starve to death.

Hopefully this clears things up. and i again apologize to anyone i offended. but please try to be a little more mature in telling people especially new people your oppinions.
 
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