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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi , does anyone know if sunflower spread such as flora or the like is good or bad for rats? I gave my 2 girls a mixture of chopped brocoli tops and sunflower spread stuffed inside walnut shells and they absolutely loved it.Just wondering if its ok ?

The reason i did this was because none of my rats seemed too keen on greens but loved the sunflower spread so i made a mixture of the 2 and now they both love broccoli on its own ! :lol:
 

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Sunflower spread should be ok but you should probably cut it with a liquid just like you would with peanut butter. It's high in fat, so it should be used sparingly.

side note: that stuff is unusually delicious for people too. Just had my first taste at thanksgiving. Yum!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmm , ive heard sunflower spread is meant to be low in fat but maybe thats just compared to butter.
 

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get a soya spread
low in fat
and the brand i use - 'PURE' is full of added vitamins that rats need.

im in the process of getting my rats on a vegan diet, as i dont see the need for them to eat other animals (and their by-products) that were murdered -- as they are domestic so i can give them a diet with all the nutrients they need without harming other animals and the environment.

..a vegan diet isnt natrual to a rat i know, but as soon as the rat was placed in a cage and relies on humans for food - the nature argument goes out of the window.
 

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i'm not a vegan so i don't know the ins and outs of supporting a balance diet without meat. i just wanted to comment on general basis about your statement, "a vegan diet isnt natrual to a rat i know, but as soon as the rat was placed in a cage and relies on humans for food - the nature argument goes out of the window."

the reason a natural argument is placed is because even though the animal is domesticated, they still have the same nutritional needs as their wild counterparts. this is what dog food and cat food is supposed to do for dogs and cats respectively, simulate a healthy natural diet for that animal. that's about as far as that argument goes. if you can offer the same nutritional balance for your rats that giving them a proper amount of meat for protein and other vitimins held within meat would provide then all the more power to you. for some animals this is just not an alternative, i doubt you could get a rattle snake to live off something that was not once a living animal. but where rats are more opprotunistic and have an omnivorous tendancy it could probably work out. be careful about it, make sure what you are offering is good for them and not on the forbidden foods list but other then that i hope it works out well for you and the rats.
 

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Hmm , ive heard sunflower spread is meant to be low in fat but maybe thats just compared to butter.
My logic is thus, seeds (in general) are high in fat, and they are to be given to rats in smaller increments; therefore, a spread made of entirely of oil and seeds will be way more fatty than lets say Suebee's or Nutro Natrual Lite. So! I would say give it as an occasional treat but I would still cut it with a liquid. It's better to be safe than sorry! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
vegan_bexx said:
get a soya spread
low in fat
and the brand i use - 'PURE' is full of added vitamins that rats need.

im in the process of getting my rats on a vegan diet, as i dont see the need for them to eat other animals (and their by-products) that were murdered -- as they are domestic so i can give them a diet with all the nutrients they need without harming other animals and the environment.

..a vegan diet isnt natrual to a rat i know, but as soon as the rat was placed in a cage and relies on humans for food - the nature argument goes out of the window.
Wow , didnt really need a militant vegan on my case.The question was about sunflower spread , which to my knowledge contains no meat or animal based products atall.
Instead of hi-jacking my post couldnt you start your own ?

Sorry , just not keen on people forcing their views on me and giving me the whole "meat is murder" rant.If you wanna be a vegan thats fine , but do you really have to preach about it?

Eating meat is natural and its half the reason we (as well as rats) have developed metacognative thought (the ability to actually realise we are alive , as well as pre planning and hindsight etc). Without it we'd have the social and mental skills of a cow.

Just remember , without meat rats wouldnt be the social, intelligent and loving creatures they are today.
 

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Gary26Uk said:
Eating meat is natural and its half the reason we (as well as rats) have developed metacognative thought (the ability to actually realise we are alive , as well as pre planning and hindsight etc). Without it we'd have the social and mental skills of a cow.

Just remember , without meat rats wouldnt be the social, intelligent and loving creatures they are today.

Not because I'm leaning one way or another, or because I'm hijacking your thread, but because I'm genuinely curious. Where did you get this information? That metacognition is, at least in part, meat-eating based?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is some information here http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040322081608.htm

Im also working on finding the article about the effects of types of meat on (for want of a more accurate term) brain evolution.

But if you look at groups of animals that eat meat compared to those that dont , the more intelligent , cunning and socially interactive animal are all meat eaters.
Some examples are wolves and other canines , sharks ,dolphins, big cats etc , compared to herbivores such as bovids (cattle) , most birds and horses.

The herbivores all tend to be somewhat dopey , skittish and easy prey , compared to the carnivores which are highly intelligent , forward planning and tenacious creatures.
 

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Great apes for example are vegan - are they not a really intelligent animal? the herbivores dont tend to be somewhat dopey at all - there are many examples to prove that on the net. Alot of what you said there isnt right - dont get me wrong im not the sort of person to 'have a go' but meat is just a source of protein/iron etc - we can get those nutrients and all other nutrients found in meat from plant form - meat is no superfood its just one source of many nutrients.


i wansnt having a go at anyone i just said that i fed my rats soya spread and i just stated why i did that to possibly get some talk about rats on vegan/vegetarian diets cos all the help i can get will be brill - i have studdied basic animal nutrition but i dont know everything - I wont jepordise the health of my animals for my beleifs - so i want to be 100% certain they are getting all nurtients - it can be done, my dog is a vegan and i know many other cases. One of the worlds oldest dogs was a vegetarian

they arent vegan at the moment because im not stupid, im planning and writing up a diet plan etc, so i know they get the right ammounts of nutrients

sorry if is seemed like i was 'jumping' at people with my beliefs or whatever - i dont force any of my beleifs on anyone unless they are wanting to hear exactly what i think. i however do like to discuss them which is what i was trying to do here.
And sorry for changing the subject, i should have created another post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Actually your wrong , Great apes do eat meat.Gorillas are known to eat meat , aswell as baboons and chimpanzees.There is evidence and scientific reports on the net to prove this if you google it.

I cant see as anything I stated there was incorrect , all the information is from scientific study and documentaries I have seen.

Meat IS actually a superfood.It contains much higher levels of protein and amino acids (essential for new growth , repair and bodily maintenance) than youd ever find in a plant.Which again is part of the reason we evolved so quickly.

Im not having a go either , and its fair enough if you want to discuss your beliefs , just not in MY thread dammit ! lol
 

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a great ape will only eat meat if there is an extreme shortage of food and if they are kept in captivity with that food around them, also when people or over population of other animals devastate their habitat - they will swith to other foods, but they wont/have never been known to kill anything for food other than insects. If i am wrong on this please feel free to inform me, my great ape geek friend informed me of this.

im a vegan campaigner - not to brag or preach - but i KNOW meat is no superfood - a 'healthy eating' meat eater on same lifestyle as a 'healthy eating' vegan - the vegan will be healthyer still. It's just a fact. Meat is a very good source of protein and iron - but so are plant foods. Someone on a completely plant based diet doesnt lack nutrients - unless they dont eat properly, same as if a meat eater doesnt eat properly.

anyway! you told me off for changing subject, so dont make me have to go on more about this.
keep it to sunflower spread. =]
if you wanna talk more about it, message?
 

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vegan_bexx said:
a great ape will only eat meat if there is an extreme shortage of food and if they are kept in captivity with that food around them
Actually, I've seen a great ape--chimpanzees in fact--on Animal Planet that eat meat. They have enough food, more than enough, and they chase, kill, and eat lower forms of primate--monkeys--seemingly for fun. Then they eat them. Don't mean to provoke, but just saw it recently. I'll try to find out what the documentary was called.
 

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Sorry to take this further, but it was nagging me. (Perhaps a moderator can split the thread into a new topic? I don't know if this forum software supports that ability.) Anyhow...

vegan_bexx said:
a 'healthy eating' meat eater on same lifestyle as a 'healthy eating' vegan - the vegan will be healthyer still. It's just a fact.
I'm not convinced of this, and I doubt that it's a "fact". Science is discovering new things all of the time, and learning more about how and what foods are best for our bodies and health. It also doesn't take into consideration the degree of meat vs. other foods one might consume, let alone what type of meat or how it's prepared. Not every non-vegan is going to be exactly like the next, just like no two vegans will be alike. I've known several vegans who were decidedly unhealthy. It should all be about balance and moderation as well as knowing your own body.

Katherose said:
vegan_bexx said:
a great ape will only eat meat if there is an extreme shortage of food and if they are kept in captivity with that food around them
Actually, I've seen a great ape--chimpanzees in fact--on Animal Planet that eat meat. They have enough food, more than enough, and they chase, kill, and eat lower forms of primate--monkeys--seemingly for fun. Then they eat them. Don't mean to provoke, but just saw it recently. I'll try to find out what the documentary was called.
Chimpanzees are a different case actually. As far as I know they tend to be more aggressive than apes. However, I wouldn't be surprised by an ape eating meat.
 

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shall we get back to the sunflower topic, and possibly someone make a vegan argument thread elsewhere?

i think the spread would be okay if your rats like sunflowers and all, which it sounds like they do, but as said before it should probably be only a treat not very often : )
 

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i agree if you wanna debate it more with me then either message me or move to another thread

i didnt intentionaly try to change the subject, and i wasnt looking for the full vegan debate, i was after some tips on raising vegan rats, like i said i shouldnt have posted about that here and i apologise.

and sorry about the mix up on apes - im not convinced myself that they do - but true i could be wrong - i did google it and i did ring a ape geek to make sure - but never mind.

and as for the health debate on veganism - its a fact - its hard to word what i was trying to say in the last post - but your right its all about balance etc, like i was trying to say if you take the healthyest of the healthy meat eater and the healthyest of the healthy vegan the vegan will always be healthier i really dont want to go into the tech. so research it - im not asking anyone to beleive me and im not trying to preach - i couldnt care less whether or not any of you are vegan.

so please. sunflower spread =]
mine had it today, they have it every once in a while and they love it.
 

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i've really heard that sunflower spread is delicious, but i don't think i've ever had any. all this talk makes me want to go get some...
 
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