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Oliver Bean, Phyllis, Waffle, Taco, Atlas, Cirrus, Orion
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Yes, it's about Oliver Bean...again lol. I am really torn with this decision. I am being told (by well-meaning people) he will likely be more aggressive as he gets older and that wild animals will instinctively fight for dominance as breeding is their only real goal in their short life. But they aren't wildlife experts. And I can't talk to anyone about him because he's wild, and it's probably against the law for me to keep him. So, I don't know if this is true or not.

If I choose to neuter him now at 12 weeks, it will be the least amount of pain and stress for him. But I take the chance of changing The Bean forever, him not being who he is, and I hate the idea of that. I love him so much it breaks my heart to do that to him. He has to live in a cage, and that breaks my heart too. I have a Triple CN for them, lots of room. And he will go to the Rattic for several hours a day.

If I choose to not have him neutered now and take a wait and see approach, I take the risk that he will maybe be dangerous to the others as he gets older. Then having him neutered at 6-8 months is far more risky, more painful, and more chances of abscess. How awful for him to have the surgery after he has been intact for all his life. But will his personality change, or would he stay The Bean?

This has nothing to do with pee marking or the smell or convenience. It has everything to do with what is best for Oliver Bean. I want him to be healthy, be accepted by his cage mates and not fight or cause trouble. He wants so very very much to be part of the mischief. He was so depressed when I adopted out his 'brothers', and it was just Taz for his cage mate. I want him to be happy.
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Poor Oliver. Between two worlds, really. He may have to be your rat exclusively. I don't know if he'll ever be a social fancy rat. TT, you've done such a wonderful job with your boyo. Everyone here supports you with whatever decision you make, but RatPappy asks you keep Oliver Bean intact and if it means an exclusive relationship, so be it. He's a unique individual.
 

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Oliver Bean, Phyllis, Waffle, Taco, Atlas, Cirrus, Orion
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Pappy, you are right, he is between two worlds. When I was gone for 4 days, he pouted and hid from the hubby and wouldn't come out for anything. When I got back, he ran up my sleeve and stayed with me until I made him go back to the cage. The next day he literally lived in my bathrobe, and every time I tried to put him back, he turned and dashed right back up my sleeve, ended up sleeping while I sat at the PC working. My little man, what to do, what to do...
 
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Hi Tiny Toes.
I know that you are the one who has done all the hard yards with The Bean, and you have the right to decide what's best for him, so this is only meant to offer another perspective.

If you get him neutered now, he will be all healed up and won't have to go through this in the future.
It will also open up more opportunities for him, about who he can be housed with etc. If need be in the future, he can live with intact or spayed females, and neutered or entire males. You will have more options about who you group him with as your mischief members come and go in the future.
Personally we only have entire females and neutered males, because after 2 simultaneous accidental litters I don't want to go through the expense and responsibility again, so it gives me peace of mind to know that that won't happen. As our rather large mischief hums along (and some will inevitably pass in the future), we enjoy being able to get them out together, regroup them if necessary and most importantly nobody is going to have any babies. :p
Being a rat in captivity does remove some of their wild and free behaviours, but it also means good food, vet care, warm and clean environment, and protection from predators. (Although I know you're not suggesting for a minute that he returns to the wild.)
All the best, hope you find peace about what's best for The Bean . He is looking amazing. :)
 

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If he's happy now why change anything. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If you snip him you could change him for the worse. Don't listen to anybody who thinks they can predict the future of how a creature will react. If you snip the Bean he will never be who he was meant to be. The world is in the predicament it's in now because of humans interfering with nature. Please just let him be. If you love the Bean you will let me adopt him so he can stay the tough, little street guy he was born to be. If you snip him how can that prove you love him by disgracing him ?
 

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I have never had any of my rats neutered or spayed but cats I've had throughout my life always were. It didn't change any of their personalities other than ending their heat cycles and drive to reproduce. I think for a caged animal it can be a good thing since Bean will not be allowed to mate anyways (I'm assuming). I'm curious about why people think it changes an animal's personality as I have never had this happen with all the dogs and cats I have known.
I don't have much of an opinion about whether you should neuter Bean or not, but if your hesitation is mostly about personality changes I wouldn't worry about that. Seems to be a myth in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate your opinions. Because I am a foster and have ratties coming and going, and can't take the risk of having accidental litters, I have decided to have both Bean and Taz neutered. Better now than when they are adults. The Bean will be able to join any group, and that is what HE really wants, to be part of a mischief. The more the merrier for him. As ratties come and go, it will be nice for him to be able to have many friends.
 

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So disappointed. It would have been better for him to have died a man rather than live as an enuch. So surprised at your decision. My respect for you will never be the same.
 

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Oliver Bean, Phyllis, Waffle, Taco, Atlas, Cirrus, Orion
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So disappointed. It would have been better for him to have died a man rather than live as an enuch. So surprised at your decision. My respect for you will never be the same.
So be it Mkd. If you think a man is only a man because of his balls, then you are wrong. The Bean will have many friends throughout his life, and it will be a life filled with acceptance and a sense of belonging, which is more important than having junk he will never use.
 

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Your probably a female so what do you know about man stuff. Why do women get plastic surgery after mastectomies? Why do they get boob jobs? Why do they wear makeup? Why do they wear high heels? Why do they color their hair? Why do they paint their fingernails? Why do they wear jewelry ?The Bean will have many acquaintances throughout his life that will snicker, laugh at, and taunt him. It will be a life of him being a freak show and something to humiliate and never have a friend or any respect.He will be "alone" forever. If you think humans and animals are different you are wrong. Don't understand why you didn't adopt him out if you really loved him.
 

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Whilst I understand the loss of testicles can be a very emotive topic,especially for a man,TT is making the best decision,after careful consideration,for her rat.
Yes it is unatural to remove an animals sex organs,but domestic animals are not living in a natural environment.They are prisoners,but in a luxury prison with lots of good food,love and a bit of fun and exercise now and then( hopefully).So whats the answer,for humans not to have any companion animals at all?Our rats cannot behave the way they do in the wild,mating and having loads of babies,it would get out of control.
 

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Dear Mkd,I love how you are so passionate about your beliefs,You obviously have a big heart and care alot which I respect.But I believe this is a complex topic which cannot be looked at in such a black and white way.The drive to reproduce is probably even deeper and more primal in the female mammal so you could say I am doing wrong by keeping a group of females who will never get the chance to fulfil their desire for motherhood,Yes,I feel sad thinking about it.It is a form of cruelty and selfishness on my part because I want to enjoy the benefits of spending my life with these beings.
,it is also distressing for bucks to have hormonal aggression and get the enticing scent of females they will never be allowed to mount,and it will be even more distressing for Oliver Bean to be taken away and rehomed,from the human that saved his life and whom he has deeply imprinted on.I inow you will disagree my friend and thats ok,but we all love our rats on here and we are all doing what we can to give them the happiest life possible under the artificial circumstances that they live in.
 

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I'm just a lurker as I don't currently have any rats. (I have a dwarf hamster who might think she's a rat ;) ) but i think what you did to neuter was a very loving and kind thing to do. It was the opposite of selfish, in fact in was self-less. You didn't want to do it for sure b/c you love how he is now and risk his changing (I don't think he'll change btw), but you knew it was better for him to be fixed so that he has more opportunity in life to be around others.

imagine how frustrated he would have been if he couldn't play with other rats b/c he was aggressive (through no fault of his own, that's just how males in the animals kingdom are when they are in tact) or you were worried about baby rats being made? It's best for him.
 

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I support your decision TT, and I truly believe that he will be much happier not having those instincts torture him for the rest of his life! He can have a lot more friends and be housed much easier with all types of rats now, which will be really beneficial for the rest of his life.

That being said, I do understand where those on the opposing side are coming from! It can be upsetting seeing a wild animal be dethroned. However, since The Bean is a wild rat, one might argue that he could have even more hormonal instincts then our domesticated rats, even more reason to have him neutered.

This is certainly one big disagreement and we will likely not come to the same conclusion about it, and that’s okay! I just ask that we don’t make a positive thread into something that splits our community together!

edited for grammar
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you to everyone who has replied and given their opinion, which I asked for in honesty 🤟. I am against neutering (if you couldn't already tell) which is why the conundrum. I understand both sides of the argument and will decide on The Bean and his future soon.

Peace and buck grease to all ✌
 
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