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I have one qustion? I was just wondering this I've seen you bash people having pet store rats and breeding them...

My qustion is with pedigrees where they come from? I mean hasn't everyone here started with pet store rats? Rat's from a breeder that in turn started out with pet store rats? If not that then wild rats? I just don't get the pedigree part?
 

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Re: A Qustion About Pedigrees

Pedigreed rats come from established bloodlines. Yes, perhaps at one point these rats were pet store type, however, through careful breeding, the rat with the pedigree has a known genetic background, and has been breed for type and to better the species.

Breeding pet store rats can result in rats with poor genetic background that may be carrying various disorders or tendencies that aren't welcome (for example, a tendency to PT, or aggression, or skittishness, or early death from whatever else.) A 'breeder' that's breeding pet store rats cannot say for certain what they are producing without a long, laborous process to determine the full genetic makeup and life expectancy, etc of their rats. I think this usually involves tracking five generations from birth to death along with carefully planned breeding. And in the meantime you cannot say what you've got and do not have established lines.

Part of the reason we're harsh on people breeding their pet store rats is that there is already an overpopulation of pet rats for the people willing and able to care for them properly. And when people introduce more they ought to at the least be doing so in a knowledgable way to attempt to better the species as a whole. The other issue is that if this person gives/sells/adopts their babies out and the babies come up with genetic issues, aggression, etc, it can give reputable, responsible breeders a bad name.

In short, if anyone wants to breed my general advice is, find a responsible breeder to mentor you, in person, by phone, by email, whatever you choose. This person can be sure you know the ins and outs of genetics, birthing, care, diseases, etc. And this person can often supply you with your starting pair of pedigreed rats.
 

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Re: A Qustion About Pedigrees

But thats where you contradict yourself and you said: Yes, perhaps at one point these rats were pet store type.

Then you said: Breeding pet store rats can result in rats with poor genetic background that may be carrying various disorders or tendencies that aren't welcome (for example, a tendency to PT, or aggression, or skittishness, or early death from whatever else.)

So are they still pet store rats regardless how many generations they are because they once came from a pet store rat right? They still have the same genetics (weather it be a tendency to PT, or aggression, or skittishness, or early death from whatever else) as the mother and father, grandmother and grand father and on back. Is There is no known pure rat that hasn't came from a pet store or the wild? I mean with a pure strain or with pure genetics?

Just a few questions:

What makes the rats you own different form a pet store rat? Just because you know the grandma and grandpa, mother and father then the babies and so on and so on?

Also how careful do you have to be? I mean are you hoping that the babies won't have any distorter's that the generations before them had? Then this brings up the qustion if you're not sure why breed them?

You talk about an early death. Rat's only live 2-3 years max. That's early in it's self. I mean don't get me wrong I love my ratties dearly but just if they were made for anything else wouldn't they have longer lives other then 2-3 years?

And with pedigrees do you have papers like with a dog or cat? Or can anyone say well it's pedigreed just because I said so?

Then you talk about over population. If you were to breed aren't you yourself contributing to the over population also? How is your breeding different than anyone else that your bashing that is also breeding? Since they all can be referred back the a pet store rat in the first place.

I mean yeah you can come back with I'm bettering the breed but we can refer back to your: Yes, perhaps at one point these rats were pet store type.

I'm just trying to understand this.
 

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What I'm thinking with the petstore rat thing is why risk the new line when you can continue a perfectly good one already established? Also, breeders with established lines have a good idea of the genetics and work to discontinue bad genes(aggression, diseases) and continue the good ones(one of which is longevity).


As far as the papers I have no idea, I've never bred and never plan to.
 

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No one on this forum "bashes" owning pet store rats, first of all. Most people have had them in the past, and they usually make excellent pets. All my rats have been feeder destined, and my current three are lovely girls. Two I bought, and one I "rescued" from a home where she was not wanted.

Breeding them is a whole other animal (not saying you bred your current adorable litter that I saw in your other post, but just saying as we feel). Pet store rats often have very poor genetics, a result of inbreeding and lack of care for the stock rats. This usually leads to shorter lifespans, and an increased number of health problems for those of us who try to keep pet store rats as PETS for the whole of their natural lives, and not just feed them to snakes.

Rats with pedigrees bred by respectable, responsible, and ethical breeders did at one time start out as pet store rats. But that was GENERATIONS ago, human generations, not just rat generations which are considerably shorter. The earlier breeders kept careful records of their rats, and if a line showed problems, they discontinued it, or fixed the problems so that pedigreed rats now have longer, healthier lives with sweeter tempers than their pet store counterparts. Ethical breeders still keep such records, and know what each line carries problem wise, and works hard to eliminate these problems.

And it's true that sometimes pet store rats are still introduced into breeders line, but this is done with extreme caution, and they put as much work into integrating the new genetics as they did in the beginning.

Yes, rats with pedigrees have papers, and their entire family tree, including any problems, genetic, temperamental, or otherwise are known down from great grandma out to the second cousin once removed.

Most ethical breeders breed to better the species. As far as I can tell they regret the overpopulation of rats, and many even run a rescue separate from their rattery. But if we rely on feeder breeders for the entire species, pretty soon we're going to have rats dying of megacolon eight times out of ten, and developing mammary tumors at the age of one. Most breeders also breed only a few times a year, and each female is bred a minimal number of times, and make sure that there is a demand before they breed a litter.

Yes, all pedigreed rats were indeed once pet store rats. But now they're not.
 

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An established pedigree already breeds out the bad characteristics. No one was contradicting themselves. It only takes a basic understanding in genetics to know that breeding out bad characteristics for favorable ones is a ton of work and takes much planning as well as back tracking and possibly ending lines. This is what a pedigree helps a reputable breeder to do. Without a pedigree you are gambling with some horrible genetic factors.
 
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