[PotHeadSteve]

I know you shouldn't give rats baths. But Pilgore's back has been bleeding a lot and his tail is really dirty, he can't reach his tail because his tumor is too big. He is still doing ok since he got it. But he is starting to lose weight and his grooming is down. It is like 3 tumors forming into 1 huge tumor.

What kinda soap should i use if i do give him a bath? I was thinking of just using regular soap and just rinsing his back really well afterwards. I already use saltwater to clean out his wound but there is still dried blood all over his tail and tumor.

 

[LT_2022]

Rats can have baths, just not very often and really only if they're really dirty (buck grease, pop covered bottom, etc).

Dawn blue dish soap is safe. Don't use any other Dawn dish soap because those aren't safe to use (heavily scented, contains lotion, etc)

The Rat Guide has additional tips: Bathing – Rat Guide Baby shampoo apparently works but use an unscented product.

 

[PotHeadSteve]

Ya i only want to get his tail and his back which is all covered in dried blood. He won't even have a full bath, just like sponge bath.

 

[CorbinDallasMyMan]

Has his tumor ruptured? If so, have you considered euthanasia?

 

[PotHeadSteve]

Has his tumor ruptured? If so, have you considered euthanasia?

No it doesn't look ruptured or anything. Its just really big and its starting to affect his mobility. I won't euthanize until it becomes really serious its not at that point yet. He is still eating and drinking and playing normally. It just bleeds occasionally.

 

[Cheesefather]

Rats cannot have baths at all!! It is not safe in any way no matter what soap you use. Wipe him down with a baby wipe.

 

[PotHeadSteve]

I gave Pilgore a very quick bath yesterday with Dawn soap. All i did take a soapy cloth and wiped away the dried blood on his tail and back. Then i rinsed him off in the sink. Only his back was wet and he didn't squeak at all. He is clean now so i won't have to do it for awhile. He just chews at his tumor and the blood he can't clean up. He still seems ok.

 

[Cheesefather]

I gave Pilgore a very quick bath yesterday with Dawn soap. All i did take a soapy cloth and wiped away the dried blood on his tail and back. Then i rinsed him off in the sink. Only his back was wet and he didn't squeak at all. He is clean now so i won't have to do it for awhile. He just chews at his tumor and the blood he can't clean up. He still seems ok.

It's dangerous to give them baths. Make sure to use a baby wipe next time!

 

[RatPappy]

Ya i only want to get his tail and his back which is all covered in dried blood. He won't even have a full bath, just like sponge bath.

Hey PHS!! Good to see you again. Been away for a while. I'm so sorry to hear about your sweet Pilgore...Yeah Brah, dilute Dawn Blue is my rec. Look for the duckling and you can't go wrong.😉

 

[RatPappy]

Hey PHS!! Good to see you again. Been away for a while. I'm so sorry to hear about your sweet Pilgore...Yeah Brah, dilute Dawn Blue is my rec. Look for the duckling and you can't go wrong.😉

 

[RatPappy]

Sorry about the double.

 

[morbid]

No it doesn't look ruptured or anything. Its just really big and its starting to affect his mobility. I won't euthanize until it becomes really serious its not at that point yet. He is still eating and drinking and playing normally. It just bleeds occasionally.

unfortunately, if it's getting to the point that it's bleeding/becoming inflamed or irritated, interfering with cleaning and starting to affect his mobility i'd argue that it's becoming serious and that it's time to start considering euthanasia. large tumors especially will be really draining and they suck up nutrients that'll make it harder for him to keep or put on (healthy) weight. if he can't clean and climb like a healthy rat then that doesn't sound like he has a good quality of life. i'm not saying to euthanize him ASAP it's just good to keep in mind! additionally, if he does get a bath, i wouldn't recommend much or any soap at all, honestly. gentle scrubbing should get most of the icky stuff off! if you'd like, i can send you a link to a good quality of life test that could be useful. just lmk!

 

[PotHeadSteve]

unfortunately, if it's getting to the point that it's bleeding/becoming inflamed or irritated, interfering with cleaning and starting to affect his mobility i'd argue that it's becoming serious and that it's time to start considering euthanasia. large tumors especially will be really draining and they suck up nutrients that'll make it harder for him to keep or put on (healthy) weight. if he can't clean and climb like a healthy rat then that doesn't sound like he has a good quality of life. i'm not saying to euthanize him ASAP it's just good to keep in mind! additionally, if he does get a bath, i wouldn't recommend much or any soap at all, honestly. gentle scrubbing should get most of the icky stuff off! if you'd like, i can send you a link to a good quality of life test that could be useful. just lmk!

No he is climbing just fine. He is cleaning just fine as well, he just can't get behind the tumor. Yes he is losing weight cuz of the tumor. But i will give him a few more months before i start considering euthanasia. It kinda gets swollen and starts bleeding and he bites at it which also causes it to bleed more. Well i just used a soapy cloth and rinsed him well in the sink. It really only took like 5 minutes and he dried fast. The soap i used was the blue dawn with the duck on it and i only used a drop.

 

[SonicRat]

I have found from experience that rats ,for whatever reason,that cannot tend to themselves,reallly do appreciate our help in keeping clean,as they hate to be soiled.Also I have seen rats close their eyes in pleasure and sofltly brux as the warm water from a bath soothes an oldies arthritis just as it would us....and they love to be towel dried too.I would never bathe a healthy rat though.Also keep the water shallow,about 8 cm,and stand the rat up and support them under the chest.
Steve,I am sorry your Pilgore is on the decline.It seems to happen all to fast doesn’t it.You are a great rat companion and carer,and you will know when it is the right time for your Pilgore.

 

[PotHeadSteve]

I have found from experience that rats ,for whatever reason,that cannot tend to themselves,reallly do appreciate our help in keeping clean,as they hate to be soiled.Also I have seen rats close their eyes in pleasure and sofltly brux as the warm water from a bath soothes an oldies arthritis just as it would us....and they love to be towel dried too.I would never bathe a healthy rat though.Also keep the water shallow,about 8 cm,and stand the rat up and support them under the chest.
Steve,I am sorry your Pilgore is on the decline.It seems to happen all to fast doesn’t it.You are a great rat companion and carer,and you will know when it is the right time for your Pilgore.

Ya he was doing that. He was a little freaked out at first. But once i started scrubbing his tail and his back he closed his eyes and cuddled up to me while i rinsed him off. I let him dry off in his carrier with his friend too. Both of them surprisingly had a good time. Sten didn't need a bath so he just hung out on my mothers shoulder and started making his happy noise. I never thought of that too, Pilgore probably does have arthritis. He is about 17 months now so now that i think of it that is when arthritis kicks in.

 

[Cheesefather]

Ya he was doing that. He was a little freaked out at first. But once i started scrubbing his tail and his back he closed his eyes and cuddled up to me while i rinsed him off. I let him dry off in his carrier with his friend too. Both of them surprisingly had a good time. Sten didn't need a bath so he just hung out on my mothers shoulder and started making his happy noise. I never thought of that too, Pilgore probably does have arthritis. He is about 17 months now so now that i think of it that is when arthritis kicks in.

Please make sure not to give him a bath again, it's very dangerous.

 

[PeekaBoo]

@PotHeadSteve Sigh it is NOT “dangerous” to bathe a rat — while bathing is not needed or advised for a healthy rat, older rats that cannot self-groom often need bathing. While putting them in a tub or sink of water and going to town with a scrubber and soap isn’t a good method, a gentle rub-down in a very shallow container of warm water, with a drop of non-toxic animal-safe soap and a warm, damp towel is not only fine, but necessary, especially for male rats. Older males who cannot self-groom develop knots in their fur from buck grease, which attracts dirt and bacteria, leading to skin issues and potentially infections. They are also prone to “penis plugs,” — a build up that can block the flow of urine and cause urinary tract and bladder infections. In both males and females, older and infirm rats have difficulty cleaning their “nether regions,” and this becomes especially problematic given the way older rats tend toward hind end degeneration, as they drag themselves over their “messes” and get urine and feces smeared into their fur and over their tails. Add in dried blood (and a potentially-open sore), and you’re asking for a horrible infection. The only kind thing to do when our rats cannot groom themselves anymore is to bathe them, and sometimes no amount of “baby wipes” will achieve the needed results, something is needed with more texture (such as a hand-towel) and moisture.

It doesn’t sound like you were abusing Pilgore, and it seems he appreciated being washed. Considering the health hazards, it’s more “dangerous” to NOT bathe a very dirty rat who is incapable of grooming. I don’t think you need to feel bad, especially since you got good results and Pilgore seems more comfortable.

 

[Clueeee]

@PotHeadSteve Sigh it is NOT “dangerous” to bathe a rat — while bathing is not needed or advised for a healthy rat, older rats that cannot self-groom often need bathing. While putting them in a tub or sink of water and going to town with a scrubber and soap isn’t a good method, a gentle rub-down in a very shallow container of warm water, with a drop of non-toxic animal-safe soap and a warm, damp towel is not only fine, but necessary, especially for male rats. Older males who cannot self-groom develop knots in their fur from buck grease, which attracts dirt and bacteria, leading to skin issues and potentially infections. They are also prone to “penis plugs,” — a build up that can block the flow of urine and cause urinary tract and bladder infections. In both males and females, older and infirm rats have difficulty cleaning their “nether regions,” and this becomes especially problematic given the way older rats tend toward hind end degeneration, as they drag themselves over their “messes” and get urine and feces smeared into their fur and over their tails. Add in dried blood (and a potentially-open sore), and you’re asking for a horrible infection. The only kind thing to do when our rats cannot groom themselves anymore is to bathe them, and sometimes no amount of “baby wipes” will achieve the needed results, something is needed with more texture (such as a hand-towel) and moisture.

It doesn’t sound like you were abusing Pilgore, and it seems he appreciated being washed. Considering the health hazards, it’s more “dangerous” to NOT bathe a very dirty rat who is incapable of grooming. I don’t think you need to feel bad, especially since you got good results and Pilgore seems more comfortable.

You could just do a damp/wet towel and wipe if needed instead of baby wipes. I wouldn't say baths 🛁 are something that should be given regularly, but if absolutely needed then they should be given. However, it washes away their natural oils produced. The oils help keep heat in, so they could get pneumonia which is hard for rats to recover fully from(lung scarring, often need to be put on oxygen), so it's not the bath itself as much as what happens after that could be dangerous. 😭
Buck grease usually helped with diet modifications, and penis plugs don't require a bath. If it gets super bad with being unable to clean themself or HLD then a quality of life assessment should be done though.

Regarding Pilgore, I think that a Quality of Life test wouldn't hurt, and if the blood is bad enough I'd suggest seeing if the vet can help with meds, or wiping his back down regularly, and if the blood is bad enough (I'd imagine like soaked into the fur and its a mess?) then a bath may have been needed. Pictures miiight help? But a vet could also be helpful.

 

[PeekaBoo]

@Clueeee I agree with much of what you said, and completely feel that baths should be given carefully and seldom. The natural oils are important. Buck grease on an old male (especially unneutered) is not something that can be changed enough with diet, and it’s not a bad thing in and of itself — if a rat will tolerate gentle combing, the buck grease actually helps keep the skin protected. When we’re discussing baths, though, I think people are getting the idea that rats are submerged in water, which is not at all what anyone here has described.

Quality of life is always at the forefront, but a rat who cannot groom him/herself and has hind end degeneration can still be a very happy, active rat who is mentally aware and still moves well, but does not have enough range of motion to groom properly. I’m dealing currently with an older male with hind end degeneration who still pulls himself up ramps and spends lots of time tearing up cardboard, stashing his treats and chowing down on fresh corn on the cob. He’s in “twilight” care, over 2.5 years old, with a cancerous tumor that isn’t causing him pain but is being carefully monitored. He hasn’t been getting full baths, but does get his entire underside regularly wet down with warm water and massaged with a warm, damp towel to keep him clean, and at this stage removing urine and feces is a more important health measure than keeping the natural oils in place, especially given the bacterial load and the way rats live mostly belly-to-ground. I don’t think anyone on this forum would advise dunking a rat in water, but bathing a rat that needs extra help with a small amount of water and a towel isn’t going to do damage, and with elderly or less-mobile rats it can do a lot of good.

That said, I’m guessing double rex/“hairless” rats would be much easier to bathe effectively with baby wipes. Which makes sense, because baby wipes are designed for human baby skin, not fur…

 

[PotHeadSteve]

I know the oils on their skin are important. That is why i didn't fully submerge him in the bath. I just wiped him down with soap and rinsed his back off with the soap on it. Only his butt was wet and he dried off really fast afterwards cuz the room he is in is very warm. I only plan on doing that again when i clean out his cage next. So he has a clean body and cage, he really seems to like being fully clean every week. Plus he gets a little more time outside his cage. I can send pictures but it like looks really bad. The tumor is huge and alot of the fur there is missing.