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Discussion Starter #1
did anyone see this in the news?
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13800482/detail.html?treets=hart&taf=hart

they're shooting domestic rats saying that they will destroy the eco-system. never mind that they would starve or die on their own out in the wild anyway!

but i did hear about a rescue effort going on for them as well. i guess they were able to save about 60 of them (mostly females, likely pregnant).

i found this originally on canada-rat-adoption yahoo group. i'll be looking around to see if i can find anything more on it.

this is the rescue that has the ones that were able to be saved.
http://veganpeople.net/colebrook-rat-project/
 

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People are a disease.
How can a domestic rat POSSIBLY destroy the eco-system? Honestly look at how bad we're destroying the eco-system, theres no one shooting us, well... i guess there sort of is, but not in the ways that these little guys are being killed... thats so sick.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i guess over a hundered were released. i don't know how the rescue was able to save the ones they did but the news clipping is just disturbing. they'e out there with guns shooting rats that obvisously not wild (the ones in the clip are white for heavens sake). they got a close up shot of one of the live ones so they must have been some that were friendly and looking for help.

it was simple and plan ignorance and prejudice that filled that garbage of dead rats. its appalling. i want to write some very angry letters to the people in colburg and the news station that aired that debauchy.

and i slapped my boyfriend for it too. tough he had it coming when he said he didn't care... he swoons and plays with our rats here and yet is so heartless when it came to them... its probably not as bad a thing as i think it is right now but i'm so disgusted with the situation i think i may be taking a bit o it out on him. but in either case its his type of attitude that makes me thankful i have a place like this, you all understand and share my feelings.
 

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Actually I can see where they're coming from. Domestic or not, an introduced species can be a real danger. Like domestic cats that go feral and destroy native birds and the like. And though, in this case it's not as though wild rats don't exist, suddenly dropping a ton of extra rats in an area could be horrid.

And I wouldn't doubt that some of the domestic rats could survive, if given the chance. Wild rats do, so all it would take is one or two of the domestics to live and breed and there'd be many more.
 

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Forensic said:
Actually I can see where they're coming from. Domestic or not, an introduced species can be a real danger. Like domestic cats that go feral and destroy native birds and the like. And though, in this case it's not as though wild rats don't exist, suddenly dropping a ton of extra rats in an area could be horrid.

And I wouldn't doubt that some of the domestic rats could survive, if given the chance. Wild rats do, so all it would take is one or two of the domestics to live and breed and there'd be many more.
It reminds me a lot of when they shoot a gross of deer because if they do not they will starve to death in the winter, which would be slow and painful. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #6
they may survive for a while but the domestics are not wild. rats learn from other rats. ithe domestics don't learn to make burrows, or what foods are ediable in the wild. they don't know how to protect themselves from the elements like the wild ones do. a lot of them would have been very easy pickings for predators then those that survived that, well majority would have starved, the ones that got past that for a little while would still succumb to to the elements. there may have even been a few that lasted long enough to give birth but i highly doubt they would live long enough for the babies to be able to fend for their own.

in the wild the rats there live in communities and families that have had to deal with all this stuff for many many generations. they know the shadow of an owl and know to find cover and which cover is better then others. they know which foods they can eat and which will make them sick. they build burrows and have a safe place to go with other rats when they are not foraging for food. the domestics know none of this.

its like comparing a wolf and a toy poodle. sure the toy poodle is decended from the wolf and has the same chase instincts, even kill if its hungry enough but its not going to be able to survive out in the wild woods like the wolf does. eventually the poodle will die either from the elements, predators or starvation simply because it doesn't know how to survive in the wild like that. same goes for our pet rats.

so yeah, some may have survived longer then others but not enough would have made it long enough to make any real difference in the eco-system. maybe if they had released a few thousand but a hundred is not that much when you take into consideration all the dangers they are not prepared for that are out there.
 

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Maybe, maybe not.

I would think that rats retain man more of their instincts than toy poodles. They taste things, wait to see if they're good, and then eat them if they are.

They run away from scary things.

They might even join up with some wild rats.

But nonetheless.

This was also in town. Where you have to consider children, pets, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i'm not saying they're stupid or anything. some would have made it for a while. i just doubt that many would, certainly not enough to make a difference to the eco-system. after all even though they taste things to make sure they're going to be alright with them, if they do get sick from it they have no safe place to go until they feel better. there are so many dangers to them out there that they just wouldn't be prepared to deal with that many of them just wouldn't be able to do it. frankly i think the toy poodle would have more chance then the rats would because the toy poodle is at least a little bigger so it has things it can kill and eat (though there would be plenty to kill and it too).

but that is only beside the point anyway. they still didn't have to SHOOT them. like renay said, if it was nearly any other mass animal dumping it would have been handled much differently. they certainly would not have had media people recording them as they marched around with guns and picking up the dead animals they shot to show on a news program. that's the part that really bothers me. i certainly know what the view of rats are in most people's minds but that shouldn't have been a factor. they were obvisously domestic and should have had that at least put into consideration when they were being dealt with. why wasn't the humane soceity called in. they called to see if they could have government help with the animals i know but they didn't call the right people. the humane soceity goes on to private property all the time to get animals out of bad situations.

but as much as all that irks me that is still all in the past. the rabbit rescue somehow got 60 rats out of the that situation that are now all looking for homes. its likely there will be lots more as well as most of the ones rescued were females. i'm going to be emailing the rescue for more information on how we can help and how it came to be that they were able to save that many. i'm also of course going to invite them to the forums. when i get more information i'll post it here.
 

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This is horrible. People did try and catch most the rats and this WAS on someones private property, giving the owners the right to do what they want to the animals. As many times before said, rats can multiple so quickly that they can damage an eco system. They may start eating certain plants. Eco systems have a certain about of a kind of animal living in it, thus making that area a circle of life. Having 100+ rats dumped in there, is going to upset the balance. And the rats would survive. Some would die, yes because of lack of resource, but animals are smart. People say all the time how start rats are. If they can make a huge nest out of TP we give them, who says they cant make one out of grass. Rats eat everything and anything if they really want to. Those abandoned rats, dumped on private property could easily in my opinion live, reproduce and tip the Eco system over.

I do think its wrong that they are shooting them.

Edit: Animals, evolve, and adapt. Its nature.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i think we will have to agree to disagree on the point of the eco-system. i think too many would die in a short enough period of time for it to do any real damage. but i can see your points too. rats are hardy and they are smart. they haven't been bred for thousands of years like dogs, only a few hundred so it would lead to reason that they have more of their natural instincts then dogs would. but having been on the receiving end of a rescue of abandoned rats and reading about those situations from others as well, my experience tells me that as smart and hardy as they are a domestic rat will not survive very long in the wild.

i know too that it was private property and it was to the owner discretion what they wanted done with them but what bothers me is his choice. if he had called for help with the right people then they would not have had to shoot any of the rats. but it was the rats stigma that probably kept this person from thinking about the right people to call as well. which sadly is just the way the world works right now.

but i would also like to make a general apology for the tone used in the previous posts of mine in this thread. while it really ticks me off what happened here, some personal issues with animal welfare personnel likely flavored the tone in which i spoke. i did not mean to come off as quite so defensive and preachy.



in any case is there anyone down that way that can help out? i know there's a similar situation with the north star rats (perhaps not the history of the animals but certainly their need are the same) and i know i lot have already given to them. but if while you're visiting other boards and lists and talking to friends you could spread the information around, cross-post if need be, i'm sure that will help a great deal as well. right now for both the northstar and the one, advertisment is key to getting them homes.
 
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