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Discussion Starter #1
It would be surprising if there wasn't already a thread on this subject. I'm new here and looked back 5 pages and didn't see one.

My least favorite expression is "lab rats," which most people seem to think is cute. And of course rats are the most often used, so widely used they aren't even counted in the statistics. Somewhere on the NAVS (National Anti-Vivisection Society, http://www.navs.org/) website the statistics are given. And they are horrifying.

Did you know that even fish and birds are not spared in these torture labs? I read of this while taking a course that wasn't even about science but where the textbook seemed fine with all the animal experiment results that were quoted. And the authors knew how bad it was, putting results into Celsius, which sounded so much less than Fahrenheit. As in the rat that was placed on a hot pad at 47 degrees Celsius, which translates to 117 degrees Fahrenheit. And this is from memory; it may have been an even higher temperature.

I read of this while my beloved Uncle Pester sat dying in my lap. I made my decision. Though pretty much an A student, the "D" I got on that term paper was the best mark I ever got. Since we were allowed to do the paper on any related subject we liked, I did it on the textbook, re all the animal experiments shown within it. I braced myself for the horrifying photos under Images that I knew I'd see and I posted them to into the paper.

Worst of all, these useless tortures of animals - as our systems are so different, even between the rat and the guinea pig, that result are inaccurate - don't need to happen at all with modern computer simulations and other measures that are non-harmful to sentient beings. But this is a big-money business through grants given by a heartless American government. And they will probably continue to be given for a long time to come.
 

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I totally get where you are coming from, the life of a test subject usually isn't very good, and it can be quite the moral dilema about whether or not we should use animals. but, millions of human lives have been saved. Millions of pets lives have been saved. Entire species on the brink of extinction have been saved. Thanks in part to animal testing.

I see the lab rats as little heros.

Sad they have to be used, but my understanding is that the vast majority of the scientific community still believes they are the best research model. They do have a long history of producing viable results. Biological systems work the same across most mammals with few differences. We do share quite a bit of the same DNA after all! I'm biased, I've worked in a lab that did research on animals. It's very rare that legit scientists speak out against animal testing, most few it as a necessary evil, I kinda have to go with majority rule on this one.

Meh. I might be a bit morbid too... My pet ratties are all named after famous scientists, studies, and lab equipment.
 

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I've read some really good articles on how animal testing these days is very outdated and no longer needed. That they have more reliable ways to gather the same info and that many times the info they get from animal testing is not needed or helpful. That most of those who do animal testing are just doing it because it was done that way & so they are reluctant to change.

At the very least we need to end all cosmetic & product testing on animals.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think vivisection is horrible in any capacity. What they all go through. Cherries top of this rotten fruitcake that is vivisection is that human biology is dissimilar to other species - and that the government funds it by huge grants, making it profitable to continue, though better ways to are available to learn, such as computer-generated models.

Online Merriam-Webster definition of vivisection:
Definition of vivisection

  • 1 : the cutting of or operation on a living animal usually for physiological or pathological investigation; broadly : animal experimentation especially if considered to cause distress to the subject
 

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This is a really tough issue that I have thought about a lot because I'm majoring in psychology and minoring in biology, so animal testing and experimentation comes up a lot.

On the one hand, yes. Animal testing and experimentation has a lot of benefits for people and most lab animals are treated quite well, all things considered.

The big problem I have with it is that how the animals in labs are treated is 100% up to the individuals running the experiment. There is no law dictating how lab animals can be treated, housed, fed, or even to what extent they are allowed to suffer 'for the sake of science'.

I'm okay with animal testing, but we DESPERATELY need a law that clearly lays out the rules. Animals must be kept in conditions that are as accommodating as possible. They must be fed regularly and properly. They must be given appropriate housing, and companions if the animal requires it. And they should never ever be allowed to suffer unnecessarily.

Most lab animals are treated fairly well, because the majority of scientists (especially biologists, who are most heavily involved in animal testing) don't enjoy watching living creatures suffer. But the lab animals that are treated poorly....I cannot even put into words how horrifying their lives are. It's heartbreaking, and entirely unnecessary. Yes, animal testing is a necessity, but animal cruelty is not.

And I also agree that a lot of experiments done with live animals could be done with simulations, but it's more expensive so most scientists don't do it. This way of thinking is actually pretty damaging to the scientific method as a whole, but if I get into that we'll be here for hours. xP Basically a growing portion of the scientific community (myself included) believe that the cheap and accessible nature of test animals causes a lot of scientists to become sloppy when developing and designing experiments, which is just bad for science and progress. :/
 

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