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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry for all of the posts. Ok fionas being a really good mommy to her 7 babies, they all of big milk bellies and milk bands. But Callies seemingly ignoring her babies, I think they're too much for her so she doesn't want anything to do with them at all, she was being really good yesterday but not today. Some of her babies have good milk bands you can barely see the milk bands on others, I'm going to get formula in a few hours to help her out. I read somewhere that you can put momma and babies in a small container so she has no choice but to sit on them and let them nurse. Is this a good idea? Will it force her to bond with them? Thank you!
 

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Re: Worried...

you said she was in a 10 gallon tank. That is pretty small already. Moving her around & handling the babies could be what caused her to get spooked.


do you recall the suggestion I offered about formula, the types & how to mix it & store the unused portion so it doesn't spoil? If you don't recall I will type it all again for you on this thread.

the 8 oz can of Esbilac runs about $4.50 a can, maybe more at the chain pet stores. You will need to check for milk bands every 2 hours 7 if you don't see any you will need to do the feedings yourself.

Pick up the smallest eye dropper you can find. The glass one that is a 1 or 2 ml dropper runs about 2 bucks. Be sure to clean it completely after using.

You may want to call the local pet stores to see if they have a nursing mother because that is best for them. The other Mommy you have is not going to be able to handle her 8 plus 17 more.

Give her some space because you may have just been to eager to handle them. I sure hope she goes back to mothering them.

**maybe you would consider keeping this thread as a point of reference the other members for the next couple weeks. It will make it a lot easier for us to keep track of all the new happenings & new questions... you don't need to create a new thread for every question & I know there are going to be more questions, asks as many questions as you need no matter what. You are also going to need supportive/encouraging words when you get stressed. Every time a new post is added to this existing thread it will move the whole thread back to the top of the forum listings. This will really help keep the advice moving forward & not have the same advice repeated to you over & over.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Worried...

I barely handled them just once today to check for milk bands. All she wants is out of that cage, do you think fiona would accept a couple to lighten callies load? I'm going to pick up formula today
 

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Re: Worried...

get the supplies & then hope that you won't need to use them but don't wait too long because if they are not being fed... well, I think you are smart enough to know what will happen.

it is going to be real hard but you may need to let nature runs it course or find a couple nursing mothers & take the little ones to them

The other mommy you have already has a bunch to deal with so I don't think it is advisable to add too much more on her.

I'm really hoping that she will calm down & get back to work. It could be very well just a temporary set back & she will go back to normal shortly
 

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Re: Worried...

i was actually thinking that to, how old are the babies? I've heard of it happen with dogs and cats, and I think if the babies are relatively the same age, (born same day or a few days apart) it MAY work, but you may want to wait for a member with a bit more experience for good advice on this one.
 

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Re: Worried...

okay well i think the moms probably know their babies apart by scent, do you have the moms together or seperated? I imagine they're separated, look up some info on the net, personally I would try it with one baby which may sound irresponsible to some, but its only because I've tried to feed baby raccoons by bottle, baby mice, and baby birds.. and its **** hard.
 

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Re: Worried...

i know it can be done to hand raise rats but it seems that more often the not a human just can't do it. fiona had 7 and callie had how many again? if you need to fiona would have more room with her though i wouldn't add too many to her load, 3-4 tops. but you will want to test the waters with only one baby first. normally rats are great about adopting babies and will take the baby from your hand and add it to its own. if that's the case then there should be no problem. if on the other she decides she doesn't want more she will ignore the new comer most likely (won't take it from your hand or will push it out of the nest) but there have been cases when the adoptive mother killed the new babies (i've only read about and its rare but it can happen. i'm not sure the exact details on it anymore-i read it quite some time ago now- but i think the adoptive mom had a large litter-over 10 or 12 if i remember right-to begin with).

however, callie may just need a few moments out of the cage to collect herself too. have you let her out since she had the babies? maybe if you give her a bit of time out to stretch and a a few cuddles from you to show that you're happy about the babies and she'll get back to mothering. spider always wanted a lot of out time even when the babies were only a day or so old. once she had her time out she'd go back and nurse though. callie may just need a bit of breathing time to adjust.

and yes, please do as A1Apassion suggests and just keep one thread for all your questions about these litters. that will keep things much better organized.

keep us updated
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Worried...

Alright Callie has gone back to her mothering duties, I do think she just needed a bit of breathing room. I let her out for about 15 minutes while I checked the babies for milk bands earlier. and after I put her back she kind of chilled away from them eating drinking and sleeping for another 1/2 hour then went back to the babies, she went back on the nest at about 330 and hasn't moved since. I guess I was just being paranoid, lol.

And I'll keep the rest of the questions and pictures and everything else on this thread but change the title a bit (if possible)

P.s. I took a couple pictures and will upload and post them asap! Thanks to everyone whos helped me so far!
 

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If it happens again, there's no reason not to pull some of the larger litter out (keep 'em warm) with the best milk bands, and put some from the other litter that need feeding. Although, you might end up with mixed up babies, heh. But as long as the mommy with the large litter is doing alright, there's no reason to have her pick up some slack if needed.

That's a much better situation than a surrogate mom, since you have 2 nursing, and you don't have the dangers of really needing quarantine (and not being able to, in this situation, unless you quarantine the babies with the nursing mom). Though, I always suggest looking for breeders, rescues, and if nothing, then pet stores. We get inquiries from time to time, so they expect it. In my opinion, I think rotating when you've got another nursing mom, and maybe supplementing a bit, is better than supplementing completely.

That said, sounds like she did fine with some out-time. Some moms DO need that... A breath of fresh air, a moment away. It doesn't hurt, and they often go back, more relaxed, and can take better care of the babies.

How old are they? I wonder if age is a part of the problem... Young moms sometimes can't cope. Sounds as if she's doing better, though.
 

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:) May fifth is my birthday

Good luck with all those babies. What are you doing with your male?
 

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If you want to try to keep the babies straight as to who belongs to who you can always tip their tails with a colored marker when you move one to a different mommy for feeding.

Looks like you have a good mix of colors starting to pop up. The markings become pretty clear within the first days. The colors may play tricks on you for a few more weeks. You should also be able to tell their eye color now. It looks like you could possibly have some dark eyed babies with light coloration. Time will tell & better pics in a few days will give a better idea.

New looking group of babies.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Day # 3 of their lives, I've attempted to roughly sex them, not easy at this size but there is a small difference, whether I got it right it a different story. 2 of fionas babies had no milk bands so I introduced them to fiona and she took them right in and nursed them them! So yay!

Here are 3 days old pics!

Fionas "Boys"



Fionas "girls"



All of them




Callies "Boys"



Callies "Girls"



All of them
 
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